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Chat History with basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa" title="#basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa">Biosphere 2 http://bit.ly/bpSdEf (#basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa)

Created on 2010-06-08 20:05:17.

2010-06-08

BASEKAMP team: 17:46:25
Hi Guys, you're now in the public chat, about 15 min early
BASEKAMP team: 17:46:43
awesomely
BASEKAMP team: 17:46:51
anyone want to do a quik audio check?
Jessica Westbrook: 17:47:05
hellooooooooooooo
stephen wright: 17:47:15
Hi Scott
stephen wright: 17:47:21
gimme 5. or even 4
ralo mayer: 17:47:39
hello world
BASEKAMP team: 17:47:49
hellos
BASEKAMP team: 17:48:37
sure smiley
BASEKAMP team: 17:56:50
I hve to warn you all, the weather is extremely beautiful today ]smiley  smiley
Jonathan Wagener: 17:56:59
smiley
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:57:04
it was lovely here too
Jonathan Wagener: 17:57:06
it rained all day i cape town
Jonathan Wagener: 17:57:11
and cold
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:57:26
it was sunny in helsinki, though still only around 12-13C
ralo mayer: 17:57:47
viennas: 24 degrees right now
ralo mayer: 17:57:50
C#
Jessica Westbrook: 17:57:51
perfect here down South (US)
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:15
it's 8 right now actually
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:19
hooray for nordic summers
Jonathan Wagener: 17:58:22
lol
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:55
there has only been one day so far this summer where i could go out without wearing a jacket
stephen wright: 18:02:28
We thought we'd start the potluck off by screening the first part of Ralo's film on Biosphere 2. And then wind the evening off by screening it in full. At Basekamp that is.
stephen wright: 18:03:20
People are only just wandering in slowly (from the balmy Philly evening I take it), so we'll just give it a minute.
BASEKAMP team: 18:03:44
so how are you guys doing? yes, we're a few die hards ATM... and looking forward to chatting!
BASEKAMP team: 18:03:56
loading up the video
BASEKAMP team: 18:04:08
so Ralo, we should paste the video link here yes?
ralo mayer: 18:04:17
yes!
BASEKAMP team: 18:04:31
ok... 1 moment
BASEKAMP team: 18:07:46
Ralo, this one right?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1681443/anintroisafootnote_h264.mov
ralo mayer: 18:07:54
i guess so smiley
BASEKAMP team: 18:08:27
lovely -- so everyone should begin to download that... we'll queue it up here -- and play the first 15 mins or so before the chat
BASEKAMP team: 18:09:47
hmm, stephen, mind sound checking with us again? the recording sounded kind of imbalanced.
stephen wright: 18:10:09
ok just call me
BASEKAMP team: 18:11:15
hi amy, do you see the video link above?
Amy: 18:11:34
no
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:12:12
have you started playing the film already in philly?
BASEKAMP team: 18:12:49
not yet
BASEKAMP team: 18:12:52
almost!
BASEKAMP team: 18:12:58
did everyone downoad it on your end?
ralo mayer: 18:13:03
shall i say a few words before?
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:13:20
it's going to be 25 more minutes for me before i have it all, but i can start watching it i guess
BASEKAMP team: 18:14:20
ok, let's get this party started
stephen wright: 18:14:26
Yes!
stephen wright: 18:14:31
Are you going to call us all?
ralo mayer: 18:14:47
the video is actually made for a specific video installation
ralo mayer: 18:15:09
which looks like this:
ralo mayer: 18:15:11
hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>
ralo mayer: 18:15:20
hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>
ralo mayer: 18:15:25
oh
ralo mayer: 18:15:38
i got an error msg
ralo mayer: 18:15:44
did you get the image?
stephen wright: 18:15:56
Yes we did
stephen wright: 18:15:58
Thank you
ralo mayer: 18:16:00
ok
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:07
i didn't - just saw a message that you posted it
Amy: 18:16:11
same
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:12
i don't see the actual image
ralo mayer: 18:16:19
in an exhibition context i show it as a reflection on a glass pane
BASEKAMP team: 18:16:21
it doesn't look like that here Ralo
stephen wright: 18:16:22
you need to accept the download
ralo mayer: 18:16:39
i try again
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:42
i'm not being prompted
BASEKAMP team: 18:16:44
we got it
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:47
skype is evil
ralo mayer: 18:16:47
hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>
ralo mayer: 18:17:05
anyway
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:17:05
is this image online somewhere and you can just paste a url?
ralo mayer: 18:17:22
our server is down these days smiley
stephen wright: 18:17:42
Is everyone watching the film?
ralo mayer: 18:17:58
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1681443/parataxe_titel.jpg
ralo mayer: 18:18:00
thats it
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:18:05
thanks ralo, sorry to be a pain
Amy: 18:18:18
thanks!
ralo mayer: 18:18:24
as a reflection it looks a bit unreal, hologram like
ralo mayer: 18:18:41
also the partly bad quality doesnt matter as much...
ralo mayer: 18:19:58
the performer in the video is the choreographer  krõõt juurak
stephen wright: 18:20:48
that's a cool name incidentally
ralo mayer: 18:20:57
estonian smiley
ralo mayer: 18:21:07
one note to all downloaders:
ralo mayer: 18:21:16
pls don't put the fim on any sharing networks etc
ralo mayer: 18:21:32
i use a lot of footage without proper permissions...
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:21:42
understood.
ralo mayer: 18:22:01
and as i plan to continue the project with a full scale film, i wouldnt like to get into trouble smiley
ralo mayer: 18:22:03
thanks
Amy: 18:26:52
something's come up and I have to exit the chat for today - v. sorry, & BK team. Ralo, I'll try to learn more about your project online, I'm very interested in works about Biosphere 2. thx. Amy
ralo mayer: 18:27:37
if you send me an email, i can send you links once our server is up again...
ralo mayer: 18:27:45
rrralo@gmail.com
Amy: 18:27:53
Great, I'd like that a lot. will do.
ralo mayer: 18:28:06
thanks smiley
stephen wright: 18:28:39
thanks amy by the way for the link to the interview on Biosphere 2 you posted
Amy: 18:30:17
happy to. signing off! amy
stephen wright: 18:31:44
What I suggest is that we start the audio chat soon -- and that we all watch the rest of the film after the potluck.
stephen wright: 18:34:21
Where is everyone at in the film?
BASEKAMP team: 18:34:33
stephe, scott had to step away for a moment, he will be right back
BASEKAMP team: 18:35:56
but as soon as he gets back here we will surely start the audio chat
stephen wright: 18:36:20
ok Basekamp, or we can start without him if you've finished the film
stephen wright: 18:36:30
just initiate the conference call
BASEKAMP team: 18:36:49
ralo, just caught your ray davies quote, nice
ralo mayer: 18:36:56
smiley
BASEKAMP team: 18:37:17
we are at 20:33, i'll go get him though
BASEKAMP team: 18:40:58
ok i am going to start up the audio chat, if all are ready
John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:41:19
i think it's too late for me, so i bid you good night
stephen wright: 18:41:27
let's start
stephen wright: 18:41:36
I really want to hear Ralo
BASEKAMP team: 18:43:53
thanks stephen
stephen wright: 18:52:11
200 x tighter than the space shuttle!
stephen wright: 18:52:23
not bad for artists!
Jessica Westbrook: 18:53:41
hey we are getting kicked out of this space, and will have to get back home, so we will be in transit 20 min, or so... sorry for interruption
stephen wright: 18:58:31
You wrote in your publication Multiplex Fiction that your "interest in the Biosphere stems from my own experience with failed collectives." Could you say something about what you mean by that?
stephen wright: 19:06:26
But do you look at Biosphere as merely illustrating dilemmas (failure of collectives, wrong place at wrong time, etc) or as pointing some way forward? I mean do you see it as a multifacetted failure that allows us to understand or perceive other failures, or as having some kind of success -- something to teach us?
stephen wright: 19:11:50
fascinating
BASEKAMP team: 19:14:10
ralo, are you aware of the genesis of the concept of the american suburb in the exposure of the public to the World Expo in the early 30s? in a way, this was a precursor of the coloniation of space, in that it involved the expansion of a population that had overgrown the inner city into an "infinite" amount of living space?
ralo mayer: 19:14:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vernadsky
BASEKAMP team: 19:17:29
http://tigger.uic.edu/~pbhales/Levittown.html
BASEKAMP team: 19:18:06
Levittown: Documents of an Ideal American Suburb - 50's idea of suburban living..
ralo mayer: 19:19:30
got kickecd out of the chat
ralo mayer: 19:19:32
can you reinvite me
ralo mayer: 19:19:37
(the audio chat)
ralo mayer: 19:19:58
suburb colony
ralo mayer: 19:19:59
http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/70sArt/AC76-0628.jpeg
ralo mayer: 19:20:11
http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/70sArt/AC76-1089.jpeg
ralo mayer: 19:20:13
etc
ralo mayer: 19:20:15
smiley
ralo mayer: 19:20:44
anyone there?
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:47
trying again!
stephen wright: 19:20:52
WHat if we imagine an analogy from Biosphere 2 : We could create Artworld 2. Based on the standard model we know. Could we somehow engineer an influence-tight artworld, recreating some of the conditions of the mainstream variant, but small enough to force us to be as careful with the ecosystem as the Biospherians had to be with their greenhouse ecology? The example makes me laugh, but it doesn't sound too plausible.
ralo mayer: 19:28:15
250 mio $
ralo mayer: 19:28:20
80s dollars
BASEKAMP team: 19:28:32
wow
BASEKAMP team: 19:30:04
stephen personally  i find that a really powerful analogy
BASEKAMP team: 19:31:04
exactly - we're not talking about a world of one's own - how far can a world be reducible. 2 people? 3 people?
BASEKAMP team: 19:31:35
(scott has returned, stephen)
ralo mayer: 19:40:35
smiley
ralo mayer: 19:40:53
very interesting point...
ralo mayer: 19:41:03
is it possible to start up again?
BASEKAMP team: 19:41:14
we'll fix it, i was just thinking the same
BASEKAMP team: 19:41:44
we are calling, any luck?
stephen wright: 19:42:12
My question was this: to what extent was what happened to Biosphere 2 an historical accident, and to what degree was it a necessity. It was itself a very counter-intuitive kind of experiment. But what counterfactual history would have made it turn out differently? Was it doomed by overwhelming necessity? Or just by historical contingencies?
stephen wright: 19:42:20
Can you call us back please!
ralo mayer: 19:42:43
i'd like to answer in audio if possible
stephen wright: 19:42:54
Of course!!
stephen wright: 19:43:03
I'd like to hear the answer in audio too!
stephen wright: 19:43:11
Basekamp...
ralo mayer: 19:43:15
smiley
stephen wright: 19:43:20
Houston, we have a problem
ralo mayer: 19:44:15
smiley
ralo mayer: 19:44:24
mars to earth: 7 minutes delay
stephen wright: 19:44:35
7 minutes?
stephen wright: 19:44:46
And Earth to Tranquility Base?
ralo mayer: 19:44:51
3 seconds or so
BASEKAMP team: 19:44:53
so sorry, we must be having a connectivity issue.  we'll keep trying
stephen wright: 19:44:59
that's like skype!
ralo mayer: 19:45:12
cyberspace killed the outer space star
stephen wright: 19:45:28
Basekamp, do you copy?
stephen wright: 19:45:52
Maybe North America has been deleted.
ralo mayer: 19:46:01
i restart my skype
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:14
we copy, wireless signal seems to have degraded for some reason
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:21
let's carry on in text for the moment
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:50
if that's okay with you guys
ralo mayer: 19:46:53
ok i try
ralo mayer: 19:47:10
from ideological / political point of view it woulöd habe worked better earlier
ralo mayer: 19:47:17
in the 70s?
ralo mayer: 19:47:33
but then again from available technologies etc: it would have been bettre later
ralo mayer: 19:47:47
the opening of the soviet union was quite important too
ralo mayer: 19:47:58
because they could communicate with scientists there
ralo mayer: 19:48:02
the vernadkians etc
BASEKAMP team: 19:48:21
yes, i think the narrative of ascendant capitalism and the panglossian "best of all possible worlds" philosophy that was pervading society at that point likely had a lot to do with the narrative turning against biosphere 2
stephen wright: 19:48:22
so it's dialectical -- the moment it became possible, it was no longer possible.
ralo mayer: 19:48:51
precisely!
stephen wright: 19:49:33
these are crucial questions with respect to plausible artworlds too -- because by the time they are thought of (ideologically), they may already be too late (technically)
ralo mayer: 19:49:36
one could also say':it could only happen then
ralo mayer: 19:49:41
even if it didnt work out#
stephen wright: 19:49:46
right
BASEKAMP team: 19:50:24
and the public had less of a need to extrapolate itself into a more ideal world in the presence of the narrative that biosphere 1 and american society were going to become practically ideal in and of theirselves
BASEKAMP team: 19:50:36
through momentum already present and generate
BASEKAMP team: 19:50:39
d
ralo mayer: 19:50:45
can you tell more about your concept behinf plausible artwolrds?
stephen wright: 19:51:03
well that's a concept in the making!
ralo mayer: 19:51:05
but now is thet time again smiley
BASEKAMP team: 19:51:15
stephen indeed
BASEKAMP team: 19:51:46
the easiest way to begin to understand the p@w project is to look at our choice of language
stephen wright: 19:51:47
sometimes we call artworlds "art-sustaining environments"
ralo mayer: 19:52:21
smiley
stephen wright: 19:52:26
but that tends to overplay the ecospheric side of things
ralo mayer: 19:52:31
is a market a world?
ralo mayer: 19:52:40
a greek market?
stephen wright: 19:52:46
it certainly helps shape a world
BASEKAMP team: 19:53:00
....the idea of "plausibility" (it's hedging but also speculative qualities)
ralo mayer: 19:53:09
the act of speaking at the greek market as politics
BASEKAMP team: 19:54:17
and 'artworlds' -- those (plural) environments set the limits and potentials of creative practice in some realm
stephen wright: 19:54:30
the reason we focus on artworlds per se (other than the fact that we're part of artworlds and so have first hand knowledge) is that art is a kind of experiemtnal undertaking that makes (art)worldmaking a more easily observable phenomenon
ralo mayer: 19:54:40
plausible seems to be more a rich term in english tw
ralo mayer: 19:54:48
in german it's more feasible only
stephen wright: 19:55:08
plausible is like possible++
BASEKAMP team: 19:55:12
ralo - yes -- in english, we use it both pejoratively and optimistically, depending on context
BASEKAMP team: 19:55:23
stephen exactly++
ralo mayer: 19:55:30
i like the meaning of "obvious" smiley
BASEKAMP team: 19:55:47
smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley  smiley
ralo mayer: 19:55:52
so art is experimental science
stephen wright: 19:56:04
it's experimental
ralo mayer: 19:56:27
can experiments fail then?
ralo mayer: 19:56:36
only if you don't do them
BASEKAMP team: 19:56:38
and an artworld is a petri dish for those experimental microcultures
ralo mayer: 19:56:39
i would say
stephen wright: 19:56:39
not really
stephen wright: 19:56:44
yes, right
ralo mayer: 19:56:58
fascinating smiley
ralo mayer: 19:57:22
i apply for the PhD program
stephen wright: 19:57:25
hypotheses need to be verified -- but failing to verify them is not a failure
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:44
so as stephen said in a different way, artworlds are our case-study of chioce, for looking at mutations for ways of worldmaking
ralo mayer: 19:57:49
speaking of hypotheses
ralo mayer: 19:58:14
i think i remmebert the biospherians said they did science without hypotheses
ralo mayer: 19:58:19
more like darwinian
ralo mayer: 19:58:21
oberserving
stephen wright: 19:58:47
that's excellent! sure to drive the academics bananas!
BASEKAMP team: 19:58:56
so guys, i am tempted to call you all back just to say goodbye--- we are committing to sticking to an unreasonably strict schedule -- ending exactly at 8pm EST, (regardless of how late we start!)
stephen wright: 19:59:08
try
stephen wright: 19:59:13
please
BASEKAMP team: 19:59:16
okay
BASEKAMP team: 20:01:45
and thanks Chris for moderating on our side
BASEKAMP team: 20:02:11
Basekamp -- and now we'll be drinking beer ans wine and watching your video
BASEKAMP team: 20:02:22
ciaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ralo mayer: 20:02:26
enjoy!
ralo mayer: 20:02:29
g night