Week 1: The Public School and AAAAARG.org
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[Background Noise]
Male 1: Great. So hey, Sean, so how are you guys doing? And everyone? Welcome to our little chat.
Male 2: [0:00:18] [Inaudible] and also Sarah [0:00:23] [Inaudible]from L.A. [0:00:28] [Inaudible]
Female 1: Well, I for one I’m good.
Male 2: [0:00:51] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Hey, Sean. Yeah, basically we wanted to invite you guys here to talk about the public school and AAAARG.org. So specifically I had a slightly introduction plan. Basically for and maybe Sean if you don’t mind, you could help fill in the gaps a little bit. We have – is he there? Okay. Great. We have a description of a public school and AAAARG on our website right now.
And I guess I’m not sure how this is for you. Let me know if you think that this is kind of wrong, but I’ll just describe the public school super brief and you super briefly and then maybe you can correct me where maybe I’m wrong or sort of fill in the gaps a little bit. And then we can talk a little bit more about that. Does that sound okay?
[Background Noise]
Male 2: Sure.
Male 1: Cool. I think we just first want to make sure that everybody can hear each other. You know what I mean? And actually, so we don’t have to keep repeating this over and over. –
Male 3: [0:02:04] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Oh. How’s the microphone level on our side for you guys? Can you hear us okay? Or do we sound really low volume?
Male 2: We can hear you Scott.
[Cross-talk]
Male 1: Cool. Okay. Great.
Male 2: [0:02:27] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Okay. Well, it’s a pretty sensitive mike. So shouldn’t make a huge difference whether or not …
Male 3: I’m just gonna [0:02:39] [Inaudible]. Just to make sure.
Male 1: Okay, great. Just let us know if we need to turn it down because we can’t hear ourselves ever on your side.
Male 2: You get this thing on this level. [Background Noise].
Male 1: Okay. Great. I think I was messing with that [Background Noise]
Male 2: [0:02:54] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Yeah. So, Sean and everyone, hi. I just wanted to describe the public school briefly. If you don’t know about it, the public school is among the range of practices that we’re looking at as part of the Plausible Artworld's project.
We’re not really going to introduce the entire Plausible Artworld’s project right now. We want to jump right into a number of examples once per week for a year. And maybe over time we can talk a little bit more about the project.
But for the moment we just want to talk about each of these examples of things that we are seeing as a kind of Artworld and of itself that differs in some substantial way or in some meaningful way from dominant models of what – I guess what many people refer to as the Artworld.
And we’re trying over time to look at what these kinds of creative [0:04:06] [Inaudible] like these creative culture ecosystems are. We’re looking at each various sections or various kinds of our worlds. And the public school and AAAARG kind of fall into what we’re looking at as autonomous information production.
It’s a range of practices where people are creating there in schools. They’re questioning education, I guess various education models. And so I think like distributing information ways that are not necessarily thru mainstream channels or top-down. But really there are so many different examples that it’s very difficult to summarize. I’m almost tripping at my tongue trying to do that.
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I’m gonna stop and just talk a little bit about this one example. The public school really –if I’m getting this right, Sean, I’m just gonna get from [0:05:11] [Inaudible]. It started out as a project in the basement of Telic Arts Exchange in L.A. And it was something that Sean And Fiona started as a project.
It was open for other people to be involved with and sounds like over a period of about of a few years, it grew in involvement to the point where it required project space of its won. So maybe again, Sean, stop me if I’m wrong here. Are you still there, by the way?
Male 2: Some [0:05:51] [Inaudible] it happened.. But yeah –
Male 1: Okay. Awesome. Okay. So, anyway, the project moved to its own space and Sean [0:05:59] [Inaudible] in L.A. and since been it’s actually been in the basement in a building in an alley behind Chung King Road. Basically if I’m right about that. I may be describing a kind of replay but basically people have been proposing classes or any kind, expressing interest in any existing class.
And essentially once enough people expresses enough interest in a class, then the class staff organizes. That’s how it works. Just so you know, Sean, on the walls of basekamp, we didn’t even get finished with this because we realized we’re gonna run out of space.
So, we have about half of all of the classes that proposed in L.A., probably about 250 of them on the wall. We also have all the proposals from all the other public schools for far up on the various walls of somewhere around the corner guys. And also here and there throughout tonight, it’d be real great just to kind of let anyone know in case.
I’m not sure what your schedule is if you’re going to leave early. But you might want to sort of cruise around this. I want to let you know that our goal for tonight was both to talk with these guys about how the Public School got started a little bit more about what it’s like, in a way what makes it an [0:07:29] [Inaudible]in itself.
And at the same time, launch the Public School in Philadelphia There are a number of people who have been working on this already. One of the ways we can do this is any one of us here can express interest in any of these courses that have happened in the past express interest in them happening again in affiliate.
And all you need to do is just check a little box that got interested in and write your name, phone number, you know, whatever it is and we’ll help get that started. We also have a bunch of light forms to write down new course proposal ideas over on the table. So we can do that at any point. I just want to say that right at the very beginning. So, Sean, that’s much of an intro, but I hope it gives [0:08:18] [Inaudible]. Oops. Can you hear me okay?
Male 2: Yeah. I just take in this [0:08:29] [Inaudible]
Male 1: That’s okay. Yeah, right on. So anyway, that wasn’t much of an introduction but it does give hopefully people here some sense of – that might now know what you do – some sense of what we’re gonna do here tonight. And maybe you can fill in the blanks a little bit more about how you guys got started. Again, I hope you don’t mind, how that’s leading to what you’re doing now.
[Cross-talk]
Male 2: [0:09:14] [Inaudible]
Male 1: I was just asking if you wouldn’t mind telling us how the Public School got started Sean and maybe how that kind of led to where it’s at now. I think most of us here might not be that familiar with Public School. And it would be nice to fold it at some point where AAAARG falls in.
Male 2: [0:09:42] [Inaudible]
[0:10:17]
Female 1: Yeah.
Male 1: Yep.
Male 2: [0:10:21] [Inaudible] we did a lot of observations [0:10:26] [Inaudible]. And I think the program came [0:10:38] [Inaudible]. We started Public School. [0:11:06] [Inaudible] basement. And I sort of fantasized that there’d be this like really interesting dialogue [0:11:16] [Inaudible] and the school program. And I think [0:11:21] [Inaudible].
Male 1: We’ll try to add that Sean.
Male 2: [0:13:14] [Inaudible]. We should keep up with that. So we decided [0:13:41] [Inaudible].
[0:16:28]
Male 1: Hey, man. So it’s actually really – I actually thought the Public School is a little bit older than that maybe because AAAARG is a little bit older.
Male 3: Sounds like audio’s [0:16:46] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Sean, can you hear us okay? Can you hear me okay?
Male 2: I can hear you crystal clear.
Male 1: Oh, okay. Good, good. I wasn’t sure.
Male 3: He just said no [Laughter].
Male 1: Could you tell us a little bit about how AAAARG got started? I’m going to pull that up here a little bit and maybe how that works with the Public School in particular?
Male 2: Yeah. So especially [0:17:25] [Inaudible] AAARG.org. [0:17:48] [Inaudible]. And [0:17:52] [Inaudible] [Laughter] [0:21:37] [Inaudible]
[0:21:40]
Male 1: Yeah. Are you imagining all of our shouting faces in the window shade? You got –
Male 2: [0:21:47] [Inaudible]
Male 1: I think [0:21:51] [ Allan More] just joined us.
Male 2: Cool. [0:22:03] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Oh. Yeah. By the way, if any of you guys have any thoughts or questions. I know that the technology has been a little bit of a hurdle but I hopefully that doesn’t really get in your way. Feel free to let us know or go ahead and just talk and ask and it’s totally fine.
Sean, I wonder if there a few questions that Jessica added earlier but I feel you addressed some of them [0:22:38] [Inaudible] locations? Do you want to talk a little bit more about how the locations work, about school locations? It might be a good thing to think about for us because we’re beginning to work with a public school in Philadelphia.
Male 2: Sure. [0:22:55] [Inaudible]
Male1: I don’t know if anybody is from [0:22:59] [Inaudible]right now. Lawrence was hoping to get on but we’ll see.
Male 2: Well, [0:23:09] [Inaudible]Adam can probably [0:23:12] [Inaudible] about that since he’s been a lot more L.A. involved and he spend so much time in L.A. and I was [0:23:24] [Inaudible] in New York for quite a while and also [0:23:30] [Inaudible].
Male 4: Can you hear me at all?
Male 1: Yes.
Male 2: [0:23:59] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Yeah, we can hear you well. [Background Noise][Phone Rings]. BY the way we’re just calling an Allan Morris. Don’t let that [0:24:13] [Inaudible] people periodically.
Male 2: Actually [0:24:19] [Inaudible]the first [0:24:23] [Inaudible].
Male 4: Oh, yeah. When I was in L.A. and Michael Bowers and [0:24:32] [Philly]
[Background Noise]
Female 1: Yeah.
[Laughter]
Male 1: Awesome.
Female 1: [0:24:49] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Did Adam drop out?
Male 2: Yeah. He said something about [0:25:00] [Inaudible]
[0:25:01]
Male 1: This is a funny format. Sometimes it works more smoothly than others. Let me try it again. Yeah. Is Adam’s out there great or …?
[Background Noise]
Male 2: [0:25:31] [I’ll just tell him].
Male 1: Okay. Sure. Let’s see. Would it be helpful for you guys to have somebody tell you what has been written there? Can you help [0:25:54] [Inaudible]. I may be have to say it and say –
Male 2: [0:25:58] [Inaudible] Adam’s saying.
Male 1: Oh, thanks Sean.
Male 2: [0:26:04] [Inaudible]Oh, you really wanna be involved in my class. [0:26:37] [Inaudible] I’m kind of [0:26:43] [Inaudible]. From the beginning, [0:27:53] [Inaudible] as both setting up a framework for Los Angeles for people [0:28:03] [Inaudible]. I dunno. But anyway, I’ve been performing [0:29:26.] [Inaudible]In terms of [0:29:34] [Inaudible] [Cross-talk]
Child 1: [0:29:39] [Inaudible]
Male 2: Oh, who’s that?
Child 1: [0:29:48] [Inaudible]
Female 1: [0:29:53] [Inaudible]
[0:30:00]
[Background Noise]
Male 2: [0:30:06] [Inaudible] I can’t really [0:30:55] [Inaudible] much more than that. [0:30:58] [Inaudible] locations are really autonomous and in a sense that [0:31:06] [Inaudible] basically [0:31:07] [Inaudible]. Learn Microsoft Word. [0:31:31] [Inaudible] for $250 a session and whatever. You know, [0:31:36] [Inaudible] more locations. There is a larger conversation on board. I dunno [0:32:03] [Inaudible].
Male 1: Yeah.
Male 2: Sorry. I [0:32:29] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Yeah did you see Adam’s –
Male 2: [0:32:39] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Yeah, did you see Adam’s comment? I’m kind of curious what he means. Do you know?
Male 2: Ah yeah. I know exactly what he means.
Male 1: Care to share? [Laughter]. I’m just curious. I’m wondering like –
Male 2: Well …
Male 1: I’m wondering if you guys [Cross-talk]. Okay.
Male 2: So this fall, we [0:33:10] [Inaudible] at the expense of our school here in L.A. and so we sort of explained the ways of doing it and I think [0:35:19] [Inaudible]. So here she sort of the first time he proposed is a way of people who are [0:35:28] [Inaudible].
[0:35:51]
Male 1: Cool. Yeah. You heard my little starter for a second. I just wanted to ask you. I dunno if you take your [0:35:59] [Inaudible] but yeah, Valentina is still here. And also Adam’s asking , asked a question a couple of people are curious about this basically whether they become some kind of a tipping point of a breaking point or whatever in the different schools, either kind of grow their own sort of legs and can become self sufficient and stable or they just kind of implode.
Male 2: I don’t even know but one of our goals is [0:36:34] [Inaudible] self sufficient and not like and I don’t know if we really have that [0:36:41] [Inaudible]. I’m not exactly sure. I think self-sufficiency is really a different thing and in a different context in different people. So [0:37:03] [Inaudible].
Male 1: Yeah. I was curious.
Male 2: [0:37:10] [Inaudible] But I think [0:37:15] [Inaudible] the transition from the Public School for Architecture in New York [0:37:25] [Inaudible] something new and [0:37:36] [Inaudible]. Adam?
Male 4: It wasn’t so much about what individuals [0:38:04] [Inaudible] say self-sufficient even if [0:38:07] [Inaudible] organization sense or [0:38:10] [Inaudible]. But [0:38:11] [Inaudible] unnecessary complication to [0:38:44] [Inaudible]. [Background Noise]. Did that make sense or not?
Male 2: Are you asking [0:39:01] [inaudible]
Male 4: I mean it’s not something --
Male 2: [0:39:05] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Yeah, go ahead Adam.
Male 4: It’s really difficult for me. [0:39:18] [Inaudible]. I guess it’s [0:39:22] [Inaudible].
[0:40:00]
[Background Noise]
Male 1: [0:40:04] [Inaudible] That’s really a question for Shaun right?
Male 4: [0:40:06] [Inaudible] One of the question that’s come up you know, [0:40:12] [Inaudible] as the Public School in New York [0:40:17] [Inaudible] considering. It’s gonna be your transition out of this three month period [0:40:24] [Inaudible]. We also had conversations that haven’t been – the arts [0:40:36] [Inaudible].
Male 1: Yeah, we hear you. We just muted the button because I think the [0:40:41] [Inaudible] I can’t give you guys some audio trouble so we’ll just unmute when we have something.
Male 4: Okay.
Male 1: Does that sound good? It’s more like – it might sound a little loud to you while we’re talking and that –
Male 4: Yeah, that sounds fine.
Male 1: Yeah. Just let us know. You’re not cutting off. It’s just we’re just muting it temporarily.
Male 4: Okay. [Cross-talk] [0:41:00] [Inaudible] It’s another question for Sean, but it’s not specifically for Sean. One of the issues it seems to come up as [0:41:14] [Inaudible] conversation about this school in New York and also hearing from Sean [0:41:24] [Inaudible] is I guess within the opportunity for the schools to act outside of an Artworld.
If that’s an objective. seems to me to hinge on the network [0:41:45] [Inaudible]. Is the idea this operate outside of the existing Artworld? Is this for particularly a community in Philadelphia. [0:42:20] [Inaudible] to the other potential communities along this network [0:42:25] [Inaudible].
Male 1: That’s a good question. To be honest I really don’t know how to answer that. I think all we really have to go on is how the other schools have shaped up so far. I mean, honestly we really don’t even know what kind of interest there will be [0:42:54] [Inaudible] at all? I know that there are a number of – I mean, just to localize the – sorry. Just to let you guys know, we are getting like call request like almost every other few minutes the least, but yeah?
Male 2: With [0:43:16] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Honestly, we don’t really know, I mean, so far there haven’t – oh, the class proposal so far in [0:43:28] [Inaudible]. I dunno. I don’t know.
Male 3: We have five.
Male 1: I there would be five. Yeah, five class proposals so far. It’s a little bit different than L.A. for example which I think has something like 350 plus proposals. But then again, currently anybody in Philly knows about this project yet, about this opportunity or whatever it is that’s interface. So I don’t know if it’s a really good – I don’t really know if it’s any kind of measure at all.
Male 2: Well than maybe the need to question is how did people find out about the Public School in Philadelphia? Is it something that you promote [0:44:08] [Inaudible]
Male 1: To be honest, it hasn’t been publicly announced until we announced the January Pala Chats like a few weeks ago. And we only really – our plan is to send out more detailed information about each Tuesday night chat every weekend which we did this weekend the first one. And we’ll plan to keep doing that.
So anyway, my point is, people haven’t actually received any detailed information unless they happen to have browsed the events on the basekamp website until this Sunday, this weekend. So, I think only the people that are already in connection with the other public schools, and there are a few that I would say that probably maybe –
[0:45:02]
I mean people that are aware of the public school affiliate are probably people that are already aware of the public schools in other cities because there’s already the link to affiliate the website. That’s been on there for quite a while although the activity’s been low.
But the activity’s been low because we haven’t actually done any work on our end to start it. We’ve been doing other things. So now, even though we haven’t started yet, that might – yeah.
Female 1: Yeah. I think I might say it segregate nicely into maybe how – I apologize if you already covered this but kind of how you got it up and running in L.A. and how you publicized it and maybe you can speak a little bit about that.
Male 1: Yeah. Exactly that might be good because we’re really just about to start it. I think that’d probably be a quicker way to say that.
Male 3: But not to say that we haven’t done anything. We’ve got about 20 people in the space and a stack of green Philadelphia school, sorry class signup sheets over on the table there. So we might have 25 at the end of the year. That’s exponential, probably.
Male 2: [0:46:02] [Inaudible] at least25?
Female 1: [0:46:04] [but is it possible we’re not accepted to the public schools]?
Male 1: Well, yeah. Okay. Just to clarify that, I think it can be mildly confusing because what Plausible Artworld’s is really, and guys I don’t know how many of you heard that question? But, someone just asked what’s the relationship between Plausible Artworld’s and the Public School is. And I’m just gonna clarify that real quick, okay?
Male 2: Is it the Public School or Public School System were you asking? Okay.
Male 1: Yeah, the Public School.
Female 1: I think that’s really probably a question that a lot of people have right. I mean we gave a little bit of description at the very beginning but yeah, why don’t we let Scott sort of give his little feel with the Public School right now.
Male 1: To keep it simple, basically, Plausible Artworlds is really a project that it’s an [0:47:10] [Inaudible] It’s something that’s been going on for a little while. We really just get to think about it as an art project, I guess.
A project that includes that like sticks to link up with other for a lack of a better term, Alternative Artworlds that we either know about or people that we know of know about of hopefully examples of interesting diversion Artworld’s that we don’t know about yet. And the Public School is one of those examples.
So our goal for this year, this is a project that was started some years ago. There’d been a number of collaborators this year is being co organized by basekamp and the writer Steven Right who I hope is on this call, at least was on earlier who lives and works in Paris. And anyway, there’d been a number of people who have really contributed to this project though as well.
In any case, the goal for this year is to focus – you know, we’ve been doing these weekly discussions that have been very informal . And this is also relatively informal but our goal for this year is to focus the whole year of our weekly Potluck Skype chats on Plausible Artworlds. The project Plausible Artworlds but also, specific example of what we’re describing as Plausible Artworld’s.
There are Artworld’s that are in some cases flagellant Artworld’s. You know that name is really giving up and running. And we’re only calling them Artworld’s because at least the way Artworld’s are understood from a sociological perspective and from – okay [0:49:06] [Inaudible]. These various examples of cultural activity qualify as Artworld’s themselves.
And we’re really looking at – we’re calling them Plausible because we see them as having on one hand is having potentiality work plausibility that are [0:49:24] [Inaudible] . And on the other hand that we can call them Plausible because they only arguably are really viable.
And we’re really not determining the validity of them. We’re just kind of looking at the different examples of Artworld. So trying to focus on Artworld’s that are different in structure in some way.
Female 1: So Public Schools is one of these [cross-talk]
Male 1: The Public School is an example.
Female 1: [0:49:50] [Inaudible] Philadelphia as well?
Male 1: Yes –
Female: [0:49:52] [Inaudible] basekamp?
Male 1: So we’re helping facilitate. We’re also like really interested in working with anyone else who would like to help with that [0:50:01] [Inaudible]. And so basically, I hope that clarifies that the Public School and Plausible Artworlds are not the same thing.
It’s just that through our project we are trying to describe the Public School and maybe 50 or so other examples throughout this year as Plausible art, as different kinds [0:50:21] [Inaudible]
[0:50:23]
Female 1: Right. And so to [0:50:24] [Inaudible]. I mean, one of things about having basekamp has these weekly chats every Tuesday night. But the thing about Plausible Artworld is that it kind of encompasses as Scott says, these 50 kind of examples of different Artworld’s. And so , in the space today, just to say again, we have – to try to get this up and running, we have pasted on the wall examples of past classes.
So, the kind of ideas [0:50:57] [Inaudible] look and review some of the past classes to get this section over here and point to the section over that has the five Philly based classes to far. So we’re really kind of trying to use the Public School as an example of the Plausible art worlds, but also in the space today you will see kind of an installed exhibit of things that relate to that example and also trying to get it up and running. So yeah. I dunno. Yeah.
[Background Noise]
Male 1: Yeah. Cool. Just trying to add somebody but I cannot. Somebody’s at –
Female 2: [0:51:46] [Inaudible] Public Schools got started?
Female 1: Yeah. I thought that would be – yeah. [0:51:59] [Inaudible] yeah. I need to ask because I thought it might be [0:52:02] [Inaudible] for Steven I believe to –
Male 3: Or Sean.
Female 1: Sean or Steven to speak about how they got the Public School noticed or when it originally started to kind of maybe that would relate to public school that we’re trying to start in Philly.
Male 2: [0:52:26] [Inaudible] And so by the end of that we have 90 class proposals. We have like 250 people who signed up [0:55:02] [Inaudible]. it took a few weeks before [0:55:09] [Inaudible]. And so that made me realize how important the role [0:55:25] [Inaudible] people who are turning ideas into actual [0:55:31] [Inaudible] like [0:55:32] [Inaudible] people were. And how I never believed it’s going to be sort of [0:55:41] [Inaudible] or power or [0:55:44] [Inaudible] dynamics. [0:55:46] [Inaudible]
[0:56:14]
Male 1: I like it.
Male 2: [0:56:16] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Oh, I’m sorry.
Male 2: And so the structure [0:56:25] [inaudible]. Some people always choose the same types of classes. They always choose. And then eventually they [0:56:53] [Inaudible] someone to [0:56:55] [Inaudible].
And so a part of the goal is to like set something up. [0:57:04] [Inaudible] that involve and participate in a certain usual way that’s [0:57:12] [Inaudible] change the way the object works. This certainly things needed to be set up in advance. [0:57:22] [Inaudible].
Female 1: Right.
Male 2: [0:58:12] [Inaudible]
Female 1: I think so. Yeah.
[Cross-talk]
Male 2: [0:58:22] [Inaudible] this started? And so all of sudden [0:58:29] [Inaudible]
Female 1: So, I mean this might be sort of like brain freeze kind of question but I guess I feel like reiterating is always helpful. So I’m just kind of wondering if you could talk about how one might post a new idea for a class to be the actual website and talk a little bit about that again.
And then maybe you are, you have but I just feel like it will be a good segway in to kind of how this sort of database of classes is now being maintained and how people here in the room as well as anyone listening can check it out and become involved.
So maybe you could just talk about the current website and how to propose a class, how to check the listings for each local area and what not briefly. I feel like that would be helpful at least.
Male 2: Okay. Hi, Sarah [Laughter]. [0:59:51] [Inaudible] you wanna talk about this or not to … ? Sure. Can people hear me?
[1:00:02]
Male 1: Yeah, definitely.
Male 2: Okay. So, you just wanna [1:00:08] [Inaudible]. One was like what was the nature of the proposals and the actual or the technical [1:00:18] [Inaudible].
Female 1: I feel like it would be helpful just to really quickly go over how you, if someone here has an idea for a class or they are considering checking out with [1:00:35] [Inaudible] online. So the technical one first is in my opinion less – I mean anyone here can feel free to suggest an alternate question. I thought it would be good to reiterate the technical aspect of how one would actually post a question on based in Philly, based in L.A., etcetera.
Male 2: [1:01:01] [Inaudible] It’s simply like you create a user account and then you go to the city of wherever you wanna be. And you just click on [1:01:13] [Inaudible] class and [1:01:16] [Inaudible]. You describe what you want to have happened to this and [1:01:27] [Inaudible] and then you add some text.
The reason why I asked the first question was [1:01:36] [Inaudible]. it’s like a lot of different types of proposals. And so, I think there is a [1:01:44] [Inaudible] early on the Public School [1:01:46] [Inaudible] or something very short like that. [1:01:56] [Inaudible] proposals like that [1:01:58] [Inaudible].
So I think they are sort of both. You can handle 9it both ways. And I think because [1:02:14] [Inaudible] that can be really predetermined by [1:02:18] [Inaudible] about a year ago, that was a little over a year ago, there was a class proposal that was just [1:02:39] [Inaudible].
And that was a [1:02:44] [Inaudible] and so, I taught. And you know, I didn’t really [1:02:49] [Inaudible]. It created this like [1:02:55] [Inaudible]. [Cross-talk]. With a great turnout, the [1:03:05] [Inaudible].
And then another thing Sean and I both mentioned in this [1:03:27] [Inaudible] from other cities [1:03:32] [Inaudible] like see class proposals that they think are interesting and then there’s this giant [1:03:41] [Inaudible] and you can click and it will shop up in another city. So that’s also another way of [1:03:48] [Inaudible].
Female 1: Are the classes free?
Male 1: That depends, right? That depends [Cross-talk]. Some people, like the goal of it –Sean, correct me if I’m wrong and everyone, is that the people that organize the courses, literally organize everything about the courses.
So if some people are dealing something that takes an extraordinary amount of effort that oftentimes, I’ve noticed some of the courses cost a little bit of money. And I think that that might help to find the space or that person or maybe the software or something. But generally they’ve been very cheap. And most of them are free. Is that right, Sean? Oops. Still there?
Male 2: I didn’t hear your question because I was checking …
Male 1: Oh, that’s cool.
[1:05:00]
Male 2: Most of our classes are free. Yeah.
Male 3: Are not free.
Male 1: Are not free. Okay, right. But a lot of the ones I have seen are. And some of the ones I’ve seen are not. So it all depended on the people organizing the classes, right?
Male 2: Sorry. I missed your question again.
Male 1: That’s okay. I’m glad you typed it.
Male 2: I was actually looking for someone’s shoes.
[Laughter]
Male 1: For someone’s shoes? Yeah.
[Cross-talk]
Male 3: I think it’s in that question Sean that [1:05:38] [Inaudible]. So this isn’t something that like has changed actually, like even sometimes maybe since which is, I dunno, since 2008 or something? So we , like at one point you’re charging like, conducts a class at one point you’re charging five bucks a class.
At one point you’re charging five bucks a class. [1:06:00] [Inaudible] software or for teacher [1:06:02] [Inaudible]. but the whole general idea [1:06:11] [Inaudible] is that [1:06:14] [Inaudible] which is one thing Sean is [1:06:17] [Inaudible] when he said [1:06:18] [Inaudible].All those things like you don’t exchange any money for like – so when people pay for classes they’re just paying [1:06:41] [Inaudible] space.
So [1:06:44] [Inaudible] to charge us. So I think it’s really a specific thing to each city. And also [1:06:54] [Inaudible] charge a little [1:06:56] [Inaudible] for some reason [1:06:59] [Inaudible].
[Cross-talk]
Male 1: We had a discussion about that quite a while ago and not in relation to these courses but about other events and things. Like, all of our events have been free here.
But we’re really seriously considering charging a dollar or like five bucks or something for different events just because when you do, it does seem to be the case that [Laughter]. I dunno. Somehow, in some places that seems to work. And we kind of wondered what that meant …
Female1: It’s like a commitment, you know, especially what I have for a recurring class, like me giving someone money is kind of like me signing up in a way, committing, giving something that I have. And so I’ll be there because I’m invested in it.
Male 3: I think it’s an echo from the commercials our experience out of that.
Male 2: Did you say [1:08:18] [Inaudible]. Did you say that [1:08:21] [Inaudible].
Male 3: If you pay for something, you’re getting more. That’s something that people might have become accustomed to thru their experience of you know, the commercial, the fact that something might be provided for free, might reflect negatively upon its value to you in a way that’s [1:08:44] [Inaudible] subconscious –
There’s no way to really explain why [1:08:48] [Inaudible] but that’s one thing I would say might have something to do with it. People think that if they’re buying something, they’re buying something just a little more [1:08:59] [Inaudible]. I don’t know why [1:09:01] [Inaudible] case. I’m just proposing it.
Female 1: But you can also see that [Cross-talk]
Male 3: Something, we’re doing a [1:09:06] [Inaudible] on Sean’s teaching or [1:09:08] [Inaudible] teaching [1:09:09] [Inaudible] right now in L.A. Just kind of, I mean we talked a little bit about this in [1:09:14] [Inaudible] course. One thing about sort of more of crucial argument here is you actually don’t pay these [1:09:23] [Inaudible].
[1:10:03]
Female 1: Yeah. One thing I just wanna kind of encourage everyone in this space to, if they have something to say, feel free to really speak up and be loud so that people on the other end can hear it.
Also, I have another question which if we wanna continue talking about the monetary investment, we can. I was also curious about if the Public School ever had any relationship to Craig’s List. And if so, what was that relationship like and have basically the founders kind of thought about that or has it ever come up?
Male 1: I was wondering that, too.
Male 2: As a model [1:10:53] [Inaudible]?
Female 1: I mean, it seems like a very similar thing in that people can post. People make their own terms for selling items or even the misconnections section. I think it has a lot of relationships as far as features of the site. I realize they’re quite different in what they’re trying, the end goal. But I just had kind of wondered if it was ever thought about or if anyone every say post it a Public School class on Craig’s List or anything like that.
Male 2: Yeah, I mean [1:11:41] [Inaudible] advertised on Craig’s List. I don’t know if that’s what you mean but [1:11:46] [Inaudible].
[Laughter]
Male 1: That’s awesome.
Male 2: That may not be what you mean.
Male 3: Is that any better?
Female 1: I dunno. It occurred to me that it was [1:12:00] [Inaudible] and I was just wondering …
[Cross-talk]
Male 2: I think there are some u p there [1:12:05] [Inaudible] connection between the way that [1:12:11] [Inaudible] driven by demand or something. I mean a lot of [1:12:20] [Inaudible]. I don’t know. [1:12:24] [Inaudible].
Male 3: I don’t think so.
[Cross-talk]
Male 2: [1:12:33] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Adam is saying let’s promote the class on Craig’s List. Oh, see you later, Adam. Wait, is he on audio? You are right? What? Bye. See you later.
Male 3: What I was thinking is [Cross-talk]. Like there should be a section [1:13:11] [Inaudible] Craig’s list for at city’s Public School. [1:13:16] [Inaudible]
Male 2: When I use Craig’s List. I used Craig’s List exactly once I think. I don’t know. [1:13:32] [Inaudible] And then a few people called. And then I said to one of them, ìyes, you can come and pick it up.î [1:13:52] [Inaudible].
So that was my first Craig’s List experience and I [1:14:08] [Inaudible] experience I’ve had with Public School that [1:14:23] [Inaudible] So all of our classes at the least [1:14:33] [Inaudible]although I don’t think it’s happened yet. Typically [1:14:50] [Inaudible]partly formed idea or desire and other people are just gonna say ,îYeah, I think that sounds really good. I bet to see that happen.î [1:15:57] [Inaudible] necessarily wanna do it. And then [1:16:00] [Inaudible]
[1:16:52]
Female 1: I have a question.
Male 1: It does, Sean. We have another question here.
Female 1: I’m interested in learning about how the idea moved from being [1:17:01] [Inaudible] artist focused. You mentioned that you started out with network with mostly artists. And what do you think your audience really is now that you’ve shifted on like an artist piece to a more academic or even a [1:17:14] [Inaudible] and how that shift occurred if it occurred and what it is right now.
Male 1: Were you able to catch that?
Male 2: I didn’t hear what [Cross-talk].
Male 1: Get a little bit closer, Sorry.
Female 1: Yeah. Where am I?
Male 1: There’s the speaker and the mike over there.
Female 1: You mentioned that you started utilizing mostly network of artists are your kind of startup group. And I’m interested to learn if the makeup of your classes has changed all, if it’s still mostly artists and what it looks like and how that changed if that change occurred.
Male 2: [1:18:03] [Inaudible] . I think it’s. I didn’t say it’s mostly artists. I would say that it’s [1:18:14] [Inaudible] that characterizes most of the people like [1:18:20] [Inaudible] education. Like a lot of people involved have [1:18:25] [Inaudible]. practicing artists or academics or doing [1:18:36] [Inaudible].
A lot of people involved come into the room. And these [1:18:50] [Inaudible] People have 50 to 75 % of the people [1:19:02] [Inaudible]. Yes. Some people will look at it and go, ìI’m not just interested in this.î And turn [1:20:41] [Inaudible]. And other people will be like, îYeah this is for me.î And will go dive deeper into it. That was sort of the intention on a certain level of inviting [1:20:55] [Inaudible]. Artworld actually works in the same way. I probably [1:21:05] [Inaudible] like half of the first half [1:21:07] [Inaudible].
[1:21:12]
Now, we were up to 4500 text letter out there and I haven’t uploaded very much since then. So 4,000, more than 4,000 text or something have been [1:21:23] [Inaudible] other than me. Not only [1:21:26] [Inaudible]. Like people come and [1:22:06] [Inaudible] and just look at it and say, like, that’s not for or yes, I’m interested or they say something like, ah, this is really interesting I can’t [1:22:16] [Inaudible]. You know, they [1:22:20] [Inaudible] something. Did that make sense?
Male 1: Yeah. I’ve often seen like ceased and desist letters that get uploaded as well. Are those just for fun or do those text actually get taken down after somebody receives them?
Male 2: [Laughter] There’ve been ceased and desist letters. One from recently from [1:22:50] [Inaudible]and before that coming from Ren [1:22:54] [Inaudible] office.
Male 1: Right.
Male 2: And [1:22:57] [Inaudible]. I updated the letter as a text and I did review [1:23:06] [Inaudible] and I think that’s pretty much [1:23:14] [Inaudible] and you know, because it was [1:23:19] [Inaudible]. I think it’s better to [1:23:23] [Inaudible]and let the rest [1:23:26]Inaudible] of the 4,000 continue to exist rather than sort of taken [1:23:29] [Inaudible]
And because it’s really, in the case of [1:23:33] [Inaudible]simple because, you know, I’ve been posting it on the same server as [1:23:43] [Inaudible] under my name. You know, it’s not a big [1:23:48] [Inaudible]. We’re looking into how to [1:23:55] [Inaudible] that. [1:23:57] [Inaudible]
Male 1: yeah. That’s pretty strange to be honest. I wasn’t surprised about the first letter because –
Male 2: [1:24:26] [Inaudible] Is anyone from [1:24:39] [Inaudible]here?
Male 1: As far as I know, no one from Corso is here but if they are, you know, that was the reason I asked the question.
Male 4: I want to make sure you received my letter alright.
[Laughter]
Male 2: [1:24:50] [Inaudible] what I’m about to say.
Male 1: Yeah, sure no problem.
Male 2: [1:24:56] [Inaudible]. just type, you know, just text /123/ you could type [1:25:07] [Inaudible]. /123/download. [1:25:14] [Inaudible]
[1:25:16]
Male 1: Oh, good.
Male 2: [1:25:18] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Okay. OneNote, 1-2-3-4? Okay. And Intel Google actually started converting audio to text and then searching it, that will be easily searchable. [1:25:41] [Inaudible] Did you see what Steven just – by the way the kung fu is picking back up so that might be initially, just let us know if – did you see what Steven just asked a moment ago on the text chat? Do you want me to read that Sean or just –
Female 1: Read it.
Male 1: Oh, yeah. Here, I’ll read it just to make things useful for us. Steven said, I’m interested that the conversation has often moved to the issue of usership as opposed to both ownership and [1:26:14] [Inaudible]. One unique feature that I see in AAARG and the Public School that makes them different than mainstream Artworld is the sense the [1:26:22] [Inaudible] is replaced by usership.
I guess that’s not exactly a question. That’s more of a statement. But I was wondering if you ahd any thoughts about usership especially being someone who works both in the world of programming and who has been really involved in critical theory and art.
Male 2: Well, [1:26:50] [Inaudible] I think the really point that Steven made here. I guess in a way [1:27:14] [Inaudible] recently is just in sense of creating resources which I think are different eve, and certainly different than objects or tools even.
I’m not exactly sure what that is, but I think that would be something shared. [1:27:38] [Inaudible] shared use. And I [1:27:42] [Inaudible] about uses [1:27:46] [Inaudible]. That’s sort of important [1:28:03] [Inaudible] advertising or something like that [1:28:08] [Inaudible] like an important, a state to maintain. [1:28:17] [Inaudible].
And I find it the sort of arguments about the limitations of what is acceptable within this particular field can be really important [1:28:48] [Inaudible] but I think it’s great [1:28:52] [Inaudible]. And they only sort of happened because of the people having the consideration [1:29:02] [Inaudible].
Male 1: Cool. [Cross-talk]
Male 2: [1:29:09] [Inaudible] and usually I sort of look at other people when I speak. So I’ve been speaking about [1:29:18] [Inaudible] and become really [1:29:20] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Cool. Hey, Sean, this is totally awesome. I have like a dozen more questions but someone just pointed out to me that it’s 8:01 and our public chat is supposed to end at eight. So, not that we can’t keep going but one of the things we wanted to do which is kind of hang out a little bit and maybe look at some of the different proposals over here.
At least for anybody interested to stay about a while and make some new proposals. And I noticed that the conversations – I mean it’s really interesting but it kind of precludes being able to think about proposals.
[1:30:01]
So I was just thinking that we might wrap up. But I wanted to mention that at least one other thing before we do, and I’m surprised we didn’t start out with this because of the topic of this chat but one of the ideas for – I’m just gonna bring this back up again, Sean.
But like one of the ideas for how the public school can have a sustained presence throughout this year is that at the very least as a beginning point, each of these weekly potluck chat topics about different art world, Plausible Artworld examples could become a public school course for at least a course proposal, not necessarily a full course, maybe not a lot of people are interested either right now or ever in following up on it.
I would say at least half of these potluck chats in the past even before focus was sharpened, but Plausible Artworld’s, there’s been a lot of expressed interest in following up by people that are there, but it’s not always easy to know how to do that. And because we already have the public school framework set up and we have the Philadelphia branch at least on the website set up.
And we have all this ability to create courses, we were thinking we could do that. And I know we have talked about that briefly, and of course, we can propose other courses but that would b mean that tonight’s chat would become a public school course as well. I guess all in the public school in art as an example of Plausible Artworld.
And I guess I was just wondering if – well, first I just wanted to say that but also I was wondering if, I dunno, if you have any other thoughts about how that might become useful for us … how we might [Cross-talk]
Male 2: Tonight I think we responded by voice to [1:32:00] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Oh, yeah sure.
Male 2: Because I can’t type fast enough.
Male 1: Oh, wait, yep.
Male 2: Then what are the possible Artworld [Background Noise]. Can the public school know that? And I’d say I got no – I do actually relay one thing that we’re trying out right now. So [1:32:25] [Inaudible] funding, we have [1:32:27] [Inaudible] we decided that our space [1:32:32] [Inaudible] valuable thing for the people who are participating [1:32:36] [Inaudible].
The money that your raising [1:32:41] [Inaudible] came around. [1:32:44] [Inaudible] One thing would be done is you can enroll in public schools for a year and it’s 200 bucks. Really it’s just also [1:32:55] [Inaudible], not that you get a badge or a degree or anything like that. And so what I found is that I think a lot of people from educational institutions that are around here are taking classes at the public.
You know, it’s like, made up for [1:33:15] [Inaudible] something that they’re finding that [1:33:20] [Inaudible]. And so in a way, like they’re outsourcing something to us and so I think that we decided to be a little proactive about it. And we started encouraging institutions and offering them to enroll, basically to sell them these enrollments for their students.
And they basically have no say in what we do. Although the students as participants have the same say [1:33:52] [Inaudible]. And we’re working at the moment on one thing that [1:34:00] [Inaudible] enroll in the public school.
And if they did, they’ll be funding some part [1:34:16] [Inaudible]. We already had [1:35:00] [Inaudible] which are having certain faculty and some students start organizing [1:35:06] [Inaudible]. this is actually [1:35:10] [Inaudible].
[1:35:43]
Male 1: So … Question number two. Did you have any thoughts about what I just mentioned before then that Sean? That’s actually really interesting by the way about the – oops, sorry – about the alternative, the fact that you can have an alternative school for 20 bucks. I wish my student loans reflected that instead of like what they really do.
Did you have any thoughts about how – I don’t really know that there’s really that much to really talk about exactly, but did you have any specific thoughts about how a public school course for this week’s proposal, for this week’s [1:36:38] [Inaudible] proposal could be helpful for us in terms of … I think you guys already did it, a course on the public school, right?
Male 3: There’s also an idea of culminates [1:36:49] [Inaudible] for about 50 weeks.
Male 1: OH, yeah and Michael just mentioned. You just kind of frame this together, sort of similar with what you just said except I think on the basekamp side – not I think. We had already decided we’re not going to be charging for any of these public school courses but that we could see at least the Plausible Artworld’s events as being a year-long seminar so each course can be strung together in some way?
Is there a way to add them online somewhere on the public school so that you can kind of search for all the Plausible Artworld’s courses or shall we just talk about that text stuff later? [Laughter] and get on with your proposals? That was a multi part question Sean.
[Laughter]
Male 2: [1:37:44] [Inaudible] I’m listening to you.
Male 1: I figured as much.
Male 2: [1:37:49] [Inaudible]
[Laughter]
Male 1: Awesome. Yeah. Never mind.
Female 1: So …
[Cross-talk]
Male 2: [1:38:04] [Inaudible]It’s familiar question and we talked about it [1:38:19] [Inaudible]Maybe we can have it [1:38:32] [Inaudible] message for us [1:38:36] [Inaudible]. Scott?
Male 1: Oh, this discussion you mean? Or the public school course [Cross-talk]
Male 2: Yeah, yeah.
Male 1: Yeah. We –
Male 2: [1:38:49] [Inaudible]
Male 1: We haven’t actually determined exactly the text side of how we’re going to have like ongoing [1:38:57] [Inaudible] we have discussed that. Each event on the basekamp site has comments. And probably general comments will go there. What we’ll do is make a link to the public school course for each of these weeks. We’ll also add the recording of the audio to the website. Anybody that’s like interested to spend another two hours of their life listening to us again can, but we’ll have a link to the public school courses so that we can go directly there on any education. I don’t if you want to call it education but sort of research as practiced or following up on any ideas that were discussed or anything that might actually be useful as a course or if we can use a course to further reading all of our texts that people might have mentioned here but I don’t have access to that text. It seems that can all be really good on the public school course.
[1:40:03]
And you can follow up just on that. If that makes sense. We’ll try to simplify it because I get a feeling the text side of it might be overwhelming for people sometimes.
Female 1: Yeah. I was going to say and maybe Scott was already going to say this but because we are close to the end of the time, maybe it would just be good to say that this Plausible Artworld’s ongoing discussion series will be going on for, we will have 50 discussions, much like this one. And so anyone who has joined in both on Skype or here in person in Philly is welcomed to come every week.
You can find out what that week’s posting is from Plausible Artworld’s site as well as the basekamp’s site. And we would love for people to just tell anyone they know that they think might be interested as well as come back. And another thing to say is that this is a potluck discussion.
So when you come, you feel free to bring either a drink or something to eat. I just wanted to say both of those URLs and this is an ongoing discussion series and to thank everybody for coming tonight. I don’t know if that’s a premature closure but I felt that it’s important to reiterate on the I owe’s. Scott mentioned we will be uploading this online hopefully. So, yeah.
Male 1: Absolutely, yeah. And in fact, all of you guys that are joining in from time zones that are now 2AM or later, it’s really awesome to have you. Yeah. So maybe we should go ahead and just follow up on the [1:42:03] [Inaudible] course and hopefully Sean, you and some other people be able to join us on the following weeks?
Male 2: Yeah. [1:42:15] [Inaudible]
Male 1: Rock & roll, man. Alright. Have a great night and we’ll keep this Skype public chat open in case people want to keep going but otherwise we’re going to go and hit the audio. Have a great night, everybody.
[Applause]
[Background Noise]
[1:42:40] End of Audio