Week 20: Beyond Participation: Toward Massively Collaborative Worlds of Art
[Scott]: Hello there for those of you who are here already! It’s great to have you!
[Steven]: Hey Scott, hello! Good to hear your voice after all this time! It’s really great of you to be so quickly reactant and to be with us tonight. It’s going to be very interesting to talk to you.
[Carl]: And to year yours! I’m glad it will be interesting. I’m more than happy, if I get tipsy, to over share or go on to long.
[Scott] Or give you enough rope to hang yourself with (laughing).
[Carl]: (inaudible 00:01:53)
[Scott]: We are looking at this page, the page that we put up to give a small introduction to everyone.
[Steven]: The one about the Yuengling Lager.
[Scott]: Yeah, we’re checking out the lager. For everybody who doesn’t know, maybe it would be worth introducing Carl, Steven?
[Steven]: Um, I think I’m just going to let Carl jump right in here. But I have to say that Carl is, I don’t know if it’s relevant information or not, Carl runs a very interesting department. Department which I thought was called the Integrated Digital Media Department which is an experimental media center in Brooklyn.
(Inaudible/Silence 00:02:42 - 00:05:04)
[Scott]: I sort of, I followed some of it. I just don’t know the back story on some of it.
[Carl]: Anyway, (inaudible 00:05:18 – audio feed lost)
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[Scott]: Carl, what is that? Sorry, the spirit of what?
[Carl]: (inaudible 0:08:00).
[Scott]: Oh, okay.
[Carl]: So, you know, it’s like (audio feed lost 0:08:22.8)
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[Scott]: Yeah, yeah. I definitely have a couple questions but I think other people have a few questions too. Maybe we’ll just write them down, you know, just quick notes and we’ll…
[Steven]: I’ve just been posting a few notes as I’ve been following along Carl (Audio feel lost 0:14:50.09
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[Scott]: Um, do have it just locally or is it online somewhere?
[Carl]: Um, I think I have it locally, I’m not sure.
[Scott]: Yeah, if it’s not a humungous file, what will happen is if you drag it into your Skype window it will send it to everyone in here which probably will be good unless their gigantic..
[Carl]: Okay, let me just…
[Scott]: You know if it’s over a megabyte or two, it might take a little while, otherwise its fine to drop it in.
[Carl]: I don’t know it’s something crazy like that. Hold on a second.
[Scott]: Okay.
[Carl]: So what (Audio feed lost 0:16:00.3.
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[Scott]: Oh no. What we have is just 300 and something kb.
[Carl]: Can you see it?
[Scott]: It’s downloading now. Skype isn’t the greatest file transfer thing, but it’ll probably be here in a minute or so.
[Carl]: Okay, so we’ll see how that goes.
[Scott]: Cool.
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[Scott]: Carl, do mind if we post this image up on the webpage for the people who can’t get them?
[Carl]: That’s fine.
[Scott]: Okay. (Inaudible 0:19:15.8) for real (laughing).
(Inaudible/Silence 0:19:20.2 -0:29:56.2)
[Scott] Q: Carl, do you often think fifty years in advance?
[Carl] A: Well, you know, it’s a funny thing. Brooklyn (audio feed lost 0:30:04.3)
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[Scott]: (Laughing) right, definitely
[Carl]: We should start an (Audio feed lost 0:30:44.2)
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[Scott]: I’m not sure.
[Carl]: Hugh Ferris (Audio feed lost 0:32:36.3)
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[Scott] Q: So Carl, how can, this is my lack of understanding about Betaville and this project. But how can tools like this are used to encourage people to be involved? And large scale public art projects used to discourage that definition of sustainability or the same kinds of ideas or the same kinds of approaches?
[Carl]: Because the (Audio feed lost 0:35:59.2)
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[Scott]: Carl, we have a…
(Male Audience Member): I just want to say that (Audio feed lost 0:45:51.9)
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[Scott]: And this is where you can leverage things like open source technology.
[Carl]: Okay, so (Lost audio feed 0:53:45.8)
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[Scott]: We’re doing great. I think we have like a zillion questions sort of queued up if we can go back and try to address them. I not sure exactly where to start except that someone here has a question so maybe we should start with that and we can just kind of start going backwards.
[Carl]: Sure.
[Chris]: Yeah, I’m thinking, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Tom (inaudible 1:02:59.5) and things like that. I’m wondering, like, how long would anybody stay in Sims City live? Would it only be like a month and then everything would change and die or something? Like they are with the others?
[Carl]: Well, I mean, let me say that first, without a doubt something like that is hard. There are enough people that have to (inaudible 1:03:31.2) that they don’t have to make each other crazy about it. Like 4 or 500 obsessed persons per generations. You might see that (inaudible1:03:45.4) which is very active. But you might want to use it to develop a particular contact. Uh, and part (inaudible 1:03:59.4) So they may want to do that and repeat that over the course of the year or (inaudible 1:04:13.6) might be interested to live within a particular district and they might start playing with thing instead of bridge or batch ball or something like that (inaudible 1:04:33.0) recreational form, in that sense. And so, what we’re figuring, really, is that there will be (inaudible 1:04:49.0 – 1:06:13.8).
[Chris]: Oh, okay.
[Carl]: (inaudible then lost audio feed 1:06:21.8)
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[Chris]: But would they grow old and die and everything?
[Carl]: Oh (inaudible 1:06:39.0)
[Chris]: I mean would they, do they stay a set age or do they go through a whole life process?
[Carl]: Um, well, okay. This (inaudible 1:06:58.0). What if we would make a prototype that would actually…? (Inaudible 1:07:04.1)
(Inaudible 1:07:04.1 – 1:10:31.8)
[Chris]: Oh. Okay.
[Carl]: And I know a lot of people would do that kind of thing (inaudible 1:10:38.1)
[Scott]: I was actually backing up in reverse through the last hour of chat and I think the first question that really didn’t get addressed, or directly, maybe it didn’t. Erin was asking if this was a consensus process and that’s always something I’m curious about in any group process because it defines a lot of things, or at least it points to other interesting questions. I don’t know if you’ve read this one yet, but basically how are decisions made through this? Do people do this as a group and then kind of get a lot out of that like a consensus or is it sort of like every person for themselves. You know, encouraging more activity through autonomy.
[Carl]: Um, (Audio feed lost 1:11:49.2).
[Scott]: Okay, is a process of how these things get built, is that something that is not being sort of an issue right now is that being built into the idea then or is that something that is sort of yet to be determined?
[Carl]: (Audio feed lost 1:12:24.5)
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[Steven]…public (Lost audio feed 1:18:14.4)
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[Scott]: (Laughing) well a lot of things just came out maybe in the last two minutes. I don’t think I’m that slow but I sort of want to address them but there are people who asked things earlier. So, I am scanning and there have been a lot of text discussion that we haven’t really addressed yet.
[Steven]: I think what’s interesting, Carl, is that (Audio feed lost 1:26:09.6).
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(Laughter)
[Steven]: I think whets intriguing about you’re proposal, I mean, it’s obviously (Audio feed lost 1:26:40.8)
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[Scott]: Steven, are you asking if it’s mainly discursive or if it’s sort of byproducts or mainly a conversation or if it has some practical benefit as an application?
[Steven]: Well, I kind of get the sense (Audio feed lost 1:28:03.0)
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[Scott]: Definitely a lot of tee shirts can be made from this conversation (laughing). Yeah, maybe we can use the application to design them.
(Laughter)
[Scott]: That was a question I had earlier, actually a couple of technical ones. I almost hate to ask them now because the conversation that comes out of it seems, you know, kind of what you said Steven. At least half of it, right? At least part of what can come out of this is that there is a contemplative value of this as an art project. We’re supposed to have a conversation internally or with other people and something interesting come out of that, maybe unpredictable. Also, like you both said, there is something specific that this is going to do to and I guess that’s where the practical stuff comes in. So, I was curious about scale. And Chris was asking earlier about time and that side of things. I think you kind of address it but I’m not sure. Like, you know, I mean we haven’t really used this but are this kind of like a… There was an emphasis on a grand scale and I was just kind of curious. Public art projects are, and the way this was described as sort of extending some ideas that were popularized by reflationary aesthetics. I think you’re talking about artist social practice and I was curious.
[Carl]: Yeah, you don’t want to (inaudible 1:33:42.9)
[Scott]: No, no, no. Not at all. I guess I was trying to sort of frame it without getting sort of trapped inside a whirlpool of conversation that is uninteresting. There’s a focus on art as a social practice on some level. It sounds like it. But also a focus on public art and on structures and the built environment. And I was curious form an application stand point, what kind of things this could… A lot of art as social practice is people and like small things. I was curious if that could be a part.
[Carl]: Gosh I hope so.
[Scott]: Okay (laughing).
[Carl]: The thing that I can think of that would be really cool to happen either specifically or just in terms of situation types. But, do you know what I mean?
[Scott]: Yeah.
[Carl]: But it really doesn’t detail a whole lot (inaudible 1:34:49.1 – 1:34:59.1)
[Scott]: Do you need beta testers?
[Carl]: YES! Yes! Omigod!
[Scott]: (Laughing) okay.
[Carl]: And (Audio feed lost 1:35:07.2)
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[Scott]: Well, definitely. All the time. And I wouldn’t want to either open an invitation that’s not there or open anyone in this conversation to take the responsibility as a beta tester, but I know that a lot of people here are involved in these kinds of projects generally. Some of us are involved in virtual worlds, one kind or another. Some of us are also developers and others are involved in these projects without any kind of virtualization at all. It just seemed like the application itself, I mean every system or micro system has its own… Something comes out of it in response to the way that it’s built. Or at least you sort of see the limits and potentials, partly through the way that it’s set up. And I was just curious to get in and sort of dork around with it I guess.
[Carl]: Do it.
[Scott]: (Laughing) Okay! How do we do that?
[Carl]: Absolutely (inaudible 1:39:14.7).
[Scott]: Okay. Should everybody who is interested send you an email or should we try to follow up on the discussion list we have? What do you think is a good way to do it?
[Carl]: Okay, we can…
[Scott]: Well, you can sort of think about it later. I know that you didn’t have a lot of lead time to prepare for follow up (laughing). I think it was something like a few hours maybe.
[Carl]: Wait a minute! Hold on a second. Hold on please! There are at least two Canadians on this call and we’re like nice and smart. Can I ask some questions?
[Scott]: Oh definitely. Yes, please do. We should, I think everybody involved to should feel not necessarily as a presenter, although it’s great to have gotten all the information about this but I think a conversation is definitely called for.
[Carl]: Okay, Scott, what do you do?
[Scott]: I’m a collaborative artist and organizer and wear other hats, you know? I’m a person. I’m part of this group called BaseKamp in Philly, or, based in Philly. We also run a space here and work with people in different places, like Steven and other people on this call, a few of them. Like Adam who lives in Tennessee and Salem who lives in Chicago and Meg who is here and lives in Philly, and other people who are present and elsewhere. And what our group focuses on is group activity and mainly collaborative in the creative culture sphere. For lack of a better term. Yeah, we have an organization that’s sort of set up for that and have been doing it for twelve years and we do different kinds of projects, that we can sort of get into later. But that’s sort of the main thrust that I do and usually tell people about.
[Carl]: I’m going to have to Google the whole place.
[Scott]: Yeah (laughing) yeah, totally. We could definitely as a follow up, we could use all sorts of methods, but a quick and easy way would be to use this mailing list that we have. We could also use the comments on your webpage to do it. Unless somebody has a better suggestion on where to do that. But anyone interested should totally do it.
[Carl]: Absolutely. Send me in email (inaudible 1:42:25.4)
[Scott]: Okay, yeah. Could you, yeah. I could actually post that. Okay. And in fact, I want to encourage you to ask the other things that you wanted to because I know we started a few minutes late, but we often end exactly at 8:00 just to be nice to the people who are not in our time zone and who would be interested enough to stay up until ass o’clock in the morning. We want to encourage them to come back for the whole year. But, since you started late, maybe I should just throw that out there that anyone who really needs to go should definitely feel comfortable just sort of heading because it’s just chimed 8:00. But if you want to stay around for a few minutes we could time box it to like five minutes or something. Then you could still get into your questions because I’m still curious.
[Carl]: Technically we do mostly undigital stuff, so to speak. Digitally supported. Anybody coding on here?
[Scott]: Yeah, a number of us at BaseKamp code, but historically most of what we’ve done is use digital tools. We’ve sort of mashed them up, not even as a focus. Just for practical benefit because most of the people we work with are in desperate locations sometimes. But largely what we’ve done has been stuff like in real space with real people, um, meet space. But now, weirdly, after all this time and being involved in open source culture, a number of us are involved in open source software experimentation and work as day jobs too.
[Carl]: Oh, cool. Do you want to hear a happy Google story?
[Scott]: Okay.
[Carl]: Okay, so (Audio feed lost 1:44:32.0)
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[Scott]: Yeah, it may be worth mentioning, Carl, that we’ve basically chosen that, I hate to use the work “platform” but as a platform of choice for a lot of the work that we do culturally and otherwise. I don’t want to go on about this because we actually are about to get into, probably we should end this. But I just wanted to mention that we have been doing this open triple studio where we both have a kind of open learning exchange, kind of along these lines. People also help to make sites for commercial stuff to help fund our space and what we do as kind of an exchange for learning this stuff with us. And we also do pro-bono projects. So, it’s something that may be good to talk about together.
[Carl]: (inaudible 1:49:12.9)
(Inaudible/Silence 1:49:12.9 -1:53:16.5)
[Scott]: Yeah, absolutely. I won’t assume that you’re not privy to it because maybe you’re really active on there, but there is a lot of effort in the druple community or using druple as an educational platform. But increasingly lately, and maybe you’re really in agreement with that. But if you’re not, we’d be really psyched to connect with you on that point.
[Carl]: It’s huge. It’s HUGE! I mean (inaudible 1:53:36.8)
[Scott]: I think maybe we can end on this point only because I can see the capacity for us to just go like totally nuts now.
[Carl]: Yeah, I think we could talk till 6:00 am.
[Scott]: (Laughing) but we should definitely all stay up till 6:00 am and drink heavily and keep talking, just not on this Skype chat. But, it’s been really great.
(Inaudible background comment 1:55:23.4)
[Steven]: Here, it’s about 2:15 am so I’m going to have to…
[Scott]: Yeah, I’m going to take my rollers and moderator and say we should end this particular one. Yeaahhhhhhh.
[Steven]: And Carl, you’re invited to join us every Thursday night at the same hour and I think we have a definite infinities and people were having interest. So I think it would be really great to, if you have time, to drop by any of our potlucks.
[Carl]: Alright, I will.
[Steven]: We’ll definitely be in touch in the future about Betaville (inaudible 1:56:15.8).
[Carl]: And one thing on that point and it comes from (inaudible 1:56:28.1) is that (inaudible 1:56:29.7) through the TAA next February and If you guys want to be in on that then my all means, let us know (inaudible 1:56:50.1).
[Steven]: That’d be cool.
[Scott]: Yeah, we should definitely chat. Thanks so much Carl.
[Carl]: My pleasure.
[Scott]: We won’t hesitate to follow up.
[Carl]: Cool, I’ll be ready.
[Scott]: Bye everybody, thank you all for coming
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