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Chat History with basekamp/$22b6da17a90a403e" title="#basekamp/$22b6da17a90a403e">Reinigungsgesellschaft (#basekamp/$22b6da17a90a403e)

Created on 2010-02-02 23:26:14.

Henrik: 18:28:27: hi scott!
scottrigby: 18:28:44: hah - finally
michael g bauer: 18:28:56: hi!
scottrigby: 18:29:04: hi michael
Henrik: 18:29:09: greetings from tomorrow!
scottrigby: 18:29:19: we're here @ basekamp finally able to listen AND read - thanks guys
scottrigby: 18:29:42
BASEKAMP team: 18:30:28: sounds a lot like Basekamp space from time to time
scottrigby: 18:30:58: chuckles
BASEKAMP team: 18:33:25: kinda reminds me of Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand"
scottrigby: 18:37:30: BTW guys, we are going to watch a video at some point, right? Just want to queue it up here
stephen wright: 18:38:58: I have to confess that I am pretty sceptical that art - as art - can change the world (or make people more tolerant etc) except as a form of symbolic privilege. How do you negotiate the fact that your work is perceived as art?
scottrigby: 18:39:36: hi stephen
stephen wright: 18:43:35: sure
scottrigby: 18:44:32: luckily www connection is not so bad - seeing how we're currently pirating a neighbor's
martin keil: 18:44:42: http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/projekte/_2009/grambow_en.htm
BASEKAMP team: 18:45:34: also sometimes going directly to YT makes for a quicker DL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACx8fXLgHzo
BASEKAMP team: 18:46:55: I think someone posted this earlier but here it is again: http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/projekte/_2009/readymade_demonstrat...
BASEKAMP team: 18:50:42: lol!
scottrigby: 18:51:40: ok, just letting you know we have the video loaded here - so we're fine whenever you want to take a break to watch the "Orientation System to the New" video.
scottrigby: 18:52:12: no rush - we can queue up the columbus video now too
Henrik: 18:54:25: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XsSugXKq28&feature=player_embedded">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XsSugXKq28&feature=player_embedded</a>
scottrigby: 18:54:45: ok, we have two videos... the columbus one, and the first one. WHich one are we watching?
michael g bauer: 18:55:23: yes
scottrigby: 18:55:23: yes. for a sec
michael g bauer: 18:56:59: i'd like hear more about the process involved in 'constructing' a rally. also i'm curious about how something like this staging could be co-opted commercially
BASEKAMP team: 18:58:48: can you talk a little bit about the makeup of the protesting group...looks like students but other town's people as well? curious if the local community felt compelled to get involved or were just wondering what was going on.
michael g bauer: 19:02:32: thx
BASEKAMP team: 19:02:39: yes
scottrigby: 19:02:44: we're watching now
michael g bauer: 19:02:53: watching
anthony sawrey: 19:03:45: Silly question.. i arrived late you see.. where do i watch video?
michael g bauer: 19:04:00: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XsSugXKq28
anthony sawrey: 19:04:07: danke
stephen wright: 19:05:57: When I was writing up the short description of your work, I was wondering how to handle your claim that you work at the point of intersection between art and social reality. As you noticed, I decided I had to mention that art IS a social reality, except that in mainstream circles and worlds it is not supposed to really merge with those realities -- merely show them (for the weirdness they are) or prey upon them ("involve" them in art). Since you do not try to "lose" yourselves in social reality, nor to show it in an estranged way (Brecht style), how would you describe your aesthetic. Similar to that of Chto Delat?
stephen wright: 19:06:53: their more recent work where they re-enact social situations...
stephen wright: 19:11:49: yes
stephen wright: 19:12:09: Le partage du sensible, The Emancipated Spectator, amongst others
scottrigby: 19:12:53: BTW, Ranciere is coming to NY soon for some Crative TIme programming, and Nato suggests setting up a Plausible Artworlds chat with him while he's here
BASEKAMP team: 19:13:13: http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/projekte/_2009/urban_de.htm
stephen wright: 19:13:21: Fucking Yes!
scottrigby: 19:13:24: Stephen - we can talk about this over the next few days maybe?
stephen wright: 19:13:36: Of course we can
scottrigby: 19:13:39
BASEKAMP team: 19:14:10: Jacques Rancière- http://a.aaaarg.org/library/r
scottrigby: 19:16:35: staaaaaaatic. better now
martin keil: 19:17:10: super I would like to join the discussion with Ranciere
martin keil: 19:17:24: here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ShGV28MBQ&feature=player_embedded
Henrik: 19:18:29: can you see the video?
BASEKAMP team: 19:18:45: cow demo...yes
Henrik: 19:18:46: its´bilingual
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:45: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5KFMlry6c
utcplausibleartworlds: 19:21:00: class is loving the cow protest
BASEKAMP team: 19:21:20: moooooooo
BASEKAMP team: 19:22:14: great!
scottrigby: 19:24:33: BTW, Kris here is mentioning that she's interested that the protest projects happen largely in rural areas
scottrigby: 19:24:45: which is unusual, in the united states anyway
scottrigby: 19:25:12: or remote 'city' spaces. Not exactly ultra-urban
stephen wright: 19:28:09: ulrich beck
Henrik: 19:28:31: exactely!
scottrigby: 19:29:35: Henrik & Martin, are you in any way interested in working with other artists on these kinds of public projects, or only non-artists? I'm asking mainly to see what place there is - from your point of view - in this practice for overlap between people who are also authors of this kind of work
michael g bauer: 19:31:31: i may have been disconnected. . .
scottrigby: 19:31:41: well... not to suggest that it's too "convenient" not to make a distinction... -- and by the way, pardon our ack of audio -- ...but the reason i asked is because you as artists are constructing the overall projects, and injecting them with meaning. I was just wondering if the people you work with are mainly "participants" or also "collaborators"
scottrigby: 19:31:55: this is not a value judgement, just a question
Henrik: 19:32:10: <a href="http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/projekte/_2009/swingspace_de.htm">http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/projekte/_2009/swingspace_de.htm</a>
scottrigby: 19:32:20: we're looking here
michael g bauer: 19:32:28: thx
Henrik: 19:33:01: hi Amanda
utcplausibleartworlds: 19:33:38: Street of Crime Rates Shifted to Other Areas
utcplausibleartworlds: 19:33:40: HAHAHAAH
BASEKAMP team: 19:33:47: a reminder to mute microphones unless you are Henrik or Martin
BASEKAMP team: 19:34:20: I love "Ave to spend your youth in style" !!!
scottrigby: 19:35:51: soneone here suggested that Brookly should be renamed to "Jeremy's least favorite place in New York"
stephen wright: 19:35:54: It's definitely a nice project. But does it lay the groundwork for what we are calling a "plausible" artworld? How do you generally feel about our (potentially overblown) claims about there being such things as Plausible artworlds developing to challenge mainstream hegemony?
scottrigby: 19:37:01: maybe i can help a bit with that one too
scottrigby: 19:37:17: Stephen, I suggested that Reinigungsgesellschaft's work was an example of a kind of micro-artworld, that's structured differently than the most dominant artworld --
scottrigby: 19:38:26: Henrik & Martin, with the above, I was mainly thinking of their work within other existing government and business sectors. Not necessarily "parasiting", but working in a critical way that is not strictly oppositional
scottrigby: 19:39:18: ... thinking about this work within the wider context of "Organizational Art" practices
anthony sawrey: 19:39:44: howdy Amanda
scottrigby: 19:40:05: Martin - an dHenrik - I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this... I realize it's been *quite* a while since you & I have talked about this in depth
stephen wright: 19:40:07: Scott, it is clear that their work is critical without being oppositional. But what do they think about our hypothesis?
Amanda Hills: 19:40:10: g'day
scottrigby: 19:40:42: yes... maybe we need to clarify our hypothesis in this conversation ...
BASEKAMP team: 19:42:48: I think Stephen mentioned Brecht earlier and this discussion reminds me of his famous quote: “Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it.”
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:10: is this the debate, art as tool for social change?
scottrigby: 19:43:15: then again stephen... many of us have a foot in both worlds -- and take advantage of the existing art institutional structures... without necessarily "believing" in them
scottrigby: 19:43:26: not to be an apologist --
stephen wright: 19:43:26: I have a foot in both worlds!!!
scottrigby: 19:43:30: yes
stephen wright: 19:43:39: my larger foot in the mainstream
stephen wright: 19:43:43: to be honest
scottrigby: 19:44:06: well, we are just teasing out ideas i realize... not saying anyone is immune -- i realize you are just asking which foot of theirs is in another world...
scottrigby: 19:44:12: sometimes, it is just a little toe
scottrigby: 19:44:41: i realize we are looking for what that looks like, however small
BASEKAMP team: 19:44:54: no no keep 'em coming stephen
scottrigby: 19:45:32: we can also talk about art's 'incompetencies' ]
scottrigby: 19:46:00: ...btw Stephen, thanks for asking these Qs out loud -- it's great actually
stephen wright: 19:46:03: and an equivalency between "incompetence" and "competence" à la Robert Filliou
scottrigby: 19:46:09: w o r d
michael g bauer: 19:46:31: i think about the art world as being centralized/sanctified hubs of creative production -- maybe in part, a plausible art world is a decentralized network of creative activity operating outside of these spaces? but as people are saying, the two often blur together.
stephen wright: 19:46:36: by "specific background" do you mean art's history?
stephen wright: 19:47:16: haha!
stephen wright: 19:47:55: Yes!
stephen wright: 19:48:05: But you did say "specific background
scottrigby: 19:48:19: hey guys, want to try somethign crazy?
stephen wright: 19:48:23: so that begs the question as to its specificity
stephen wright: 19:48:33: of course
scottrigby: 19:48:43: we have a microphone that *might* work.. but i didn't want to blast you out unnecessarily
scottrigby: 19:49:17: now that there's a small lag however, i thougth we could try the mic now... for a moment... and see if the basekamp space could try to connect by audio now? --- or at the next available moment
BASEKAMP team: 19:49:21: right right
stephen wright: 19:49:22: I agree
stephen wright: 19:49:48: with Henrik that is
scottrigby: 19:50:30: the microphone question
stephen wright: 19:50:40: turn it all on!
scottrigby: 19:50:50: ok! preare yourselves!
scottrigby: 19:51:03
Henrik: 19:51:15: nice!
stephen wright: 19:51:30: stockhausen?
scottrigby: 19:51:37: oh well
scottrigby: 19:51:40: nope
scottrigby: 19:51:45: ok fine
stephen wright: 19:51:55: Listen, this has been really interesting
michael g bauer: 19:52:18: can you talk just for a second about you two came together and began collaborating
stephen wright: 19:52:20: Becuase you postion yourselves really at that problematic threshold
stephen wright: 19:52:27: or interface rather
scottrigby: 19:52:44: oh yeah -- that would be excellent --
BASEKAMP team: 19:52:45: thx mgb
scottrigby: 19:53:32: and Yes Stephen, i agree... it brushes up against some problematic and interesting questions about the aesthetics of protest, and the threshold of a mainstream to accomodate 'dissent'
scottrigby: 19:54:46: BTW.. we do have some time after this which we can use to screen soem of your video documentation. We did watch one (wiht the volume way down).. but if you have any specific suggestions for the videos that would be great
scottrigby: 19:56:09: ALSO, Michael, maybe you would like to ask about the potential for followign up with some "Public School" course proposals from this discussion? I can think of a few... like "Organizing Micropolitiks" and "Protest zones"
scottrigby: 19:56:34: Michael B... not sure if you have access to audio or not?
Henrik: 19:56:46: here is my extra video suggestion: <a href="http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/video/city.htm">http://www.reinigungsgesellschaft.de/video/city.htm</a>
scottrigby: 19:56:51: thx Henrik
michael g bauer: 19:56:54: would love to tho i'm at a public library
scottrigby: 19:56:58: haha
michael g bauer: 19:57:06: maybe you can fill in a bit?
stephen wright: 19:57:19: For me, th emost compelling project is the "readymade demonstration" in terms of "art specific competency
michael g bauer: 19:57:20: oh . . .
scottrigby: 19:57:24
michael g bauer: 19:57:30: please you can do it!
scottrigby: 19:57:39: oh, ok
scottrigby: 19:58:04
stephen wright: 19:58:10: 12 - 2
scottrigby: 19:58:17: Henrik & Martin, we can follow up with this later for sure
scottrigby: 19:58:31: yeah, don't let us hold you up from going out to party
scottrigby: 19:58:50: btw, one of you are in Berlin right? Henrik? martin, where are you right now?
michael g bauer: 19:58:50: thank you!
martin keil: 19:58:50: yes thats our pleasure!
scottrigby: 19:59:19: Henrik & Martin -- of course
stephen wright: 19:59:24: please stay in touch! this was really interesting.
scottrigby: 19:59:27: btw, please check this out : http://basekamp.com/about/events/public-school-and-aaaargorg
scottrigby: 19:59:46: ^^ to get a sense of The Public School courses which we try to follow up with, in connection to each week's chat
scottrigby: 19:59:56: thank you very Much from everyone @ Basekamp!!!!!!!!!!!!!
michael g bauer: 19:59:57: bye!
Henrik: 20:00:05: DAnkeschön!
scottrigby: 20:00:20: Goodnight Stephen, Greg, Michael, & everyone else too
BASEKAMP team: 20:00:22: thanks so much Henrik & Martin!
martin keil: 20:00:30: thanks too!
stephen wright: 20:00:31: bye!
BASEKAMP team: 20:00:35: nite all
eanstoops" title="seanstoops">Sean Stoops: 20:00:36: interesting talk- thanks gang!
martin keil: 20:00:49: Bye!
Henrik: 20:01:48: the sad thing about skype is that i do not really know how you all look like
Henrik: 20:02:00: hope to meet you one day
stephen wright: 20:02:06: we,re invisible actually
anthony sawrey: 20:02:14: video calls would solve that
scottrigby: 20:03:34: stephen
Henrik: 20:04:04: scott, your icon creations are so funny