Chat History with basekamp/$799f7512b1450425" title="#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425">At Work / Au Travail (#basekamp/$799f7512b1450425)

Created on 2010-03-27 10:17:34.

2010-03-23

BASEKAMP team: 18:05:23

hi all, we'll be getting started here shortly.  We'll call you and a friendly reminder to mute your microphones until you'd like to chime in.

BASEKAMP team: 18:07:44

scott......

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:07:49

thanks

Aharon: 18:08:13

hi scottrigby

BASEKAMP team: 18:10:14

teching the audio, we'll begin shortly!                                                                                                                        

mabel: 18:10:35

ok

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:10:52

Dominic, we finaly have our AV tech finishing the setup >

Dominic Zlatanov: 18:11:07

ok

BASEKAMP team: 18:11:10

ha ha "AV tech"!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:11:23

w00t

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:17:50

ok guys, we're ready to start

Aharon: 18:18:20

cool

atrowbri: 18:18:56

skype crashed, recall pls?

BASEKAMP team: 18:19:05

on it

atrowbri: 18:19:08

thx

Aharon: 18:19:31

we can post links (to images vids etc..)

Aharon: 18:20:11

he mi8 not be awar of your new time!!

BASEKAMP team: 18:20:53

atrowbri who am I calling? you? or UTC?

atrowbri: 18:21:09

me

atrowbri: 18:21:13

utc crashed

Aharon: 18:21:38

for me bob da bilda is obama.. well.. now a nu one..

BASEKAMP team: 18:24:47

yes thank you all.

BASEKAMP team: 18:26:43

300-400!

BASEKAMP team: 18:26:45

Wow!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:30

cutting in & out slightly

BASEKAMP team: 18:29:51

it's crystal clear in the burbs...how is the audio for everyone else?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:29:59

btter now

mabel: 18:30:09

very good here!

BASEKAMP team: 18:32:39

yikes!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:33:32

trying 2nd www connection

Aharon: 18:33:42

do u really think your car is not powered by ppl now..?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:20

well, www is funny tonight

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:35

we have a weak signal strangely

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:38

back!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:34:45

thnak you Greg

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:34:54

is there some sort of archive of these examples?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:35:02

Yes

Aharon: 18:35:20

lol

BASEKAMP team: 18:35:20

Ho Ho Ho Ho!

Aharon: 18:35:52

nice!

BASEKAMP team: 18:36:11

sure.

Dominic Zlatanov: 18:36:50

http://www.atwork.enter1646.com/

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:37:28

thank you

BASEKAMP team: 18:37:29

yep looks great!

stephen wright: 18:41:03

Hey, can I hook up?

BASEKAMP team: 18:41:14

on it Stephen

stephen wright: 18:43:08

Hey Dominic!

BASEKAMP team: 18:43:14

Truck

BASEKAMP team: 18:43:18

by X

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:30

http://www.autravailatwork.50megs.com/photo.html

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:43:38

bottom of page

stephen wright: 18:44:18

Shows the works by Chuck Close by the edge of the highway!

BASEKAMP team: 18:44:35

try this link: (assuming this is the same artist you were referring to Scott) http://www.atwork.enter1646.com/trucker.pdf

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:36

Stephen, hello there!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:44:48

you are on the call

stephen wright: 18:44:59

Yup -- in a hotel lobby!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:45:08

which city are you in?

stephen wright: 18:46:06

Hey Dominic, you made a movie about At Work. A really good one. Is any of that uploaded to the web -- on YouTube or something?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:47:48

by the way, i didn't mention this at the beginning as i normally do -- but -- please feel free to chime in if you have any questions or comments about at work

BASEKAMP team: 18:50:39

yes please! great!

stephen wright: 18:50:48

Definitely!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:09

great

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:51:54

is there a link for that project btw?

stephen wright: 18:52:24

maybe under the name of Saint Thomas the Imposter

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:52:33

ok,,,

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:03

                                                         

stephen wright: 18:53:03

we'll have to ask him for sure. He's the guy in the policeman's outfit on the website and the PAW mail-out.

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:53:56

google search turns up a lot of generic stuff stephen & BOB

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:54:04

oh

BASEKAMP team: 18:55:23

yep

stephen wright: 18:56:04

slacking at work -- and putting a fancy name on it!

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:56:20

<ss type="laugh"></ss>

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 18:56:30

yeah, that's a rad decription

BASEKAMP team: 18:56:42

I like to call them J.O.B. Grants

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 18:57:03

there's also something slightly exotic in doing crappy jobs don't you think?

BASEKAMP team: 18:58:14

indeed Stef...the go to question for movie stars..."What was the worst job you had while you were a struggling actor?"

Aharon: 19:00:12

so.. is it not that in a sense, doing at-work ativities encouraged by a given corporation - will actually be profitable for the man..?

stephen wright: 19:00:17

There is actually no reason why at-working only has to do with low-paid jobs.

Aharon: 19:00:59

i can c this being really encouraged by the capital..

Aharon: 19:01:26

sure

stephen wright: 19:02:30

Spend your free time at work! That's neomanagement strategy for sure.

Aharon: 19:03:34

from this pov - its a really concervative practice..  that irony is possibly interesting in itself..

stephen wright: 19:04:28

At workers dont spend free time at work -- they free up work time while they have to be at work anyway

Aharon: 19:04:52

s it not actually about making work in this society more palatable..?

atrowbri: 19:05:18

Could it take place at 12hr a day Apple iPod factories in China?

Aharon: 19:06:03

yup it can.. i can imagine that anyway.. adam..

Dominic Zlatanov: 19:06:09

You make a video with the ipod in secret,

Aharon: 19:06:57

u place secret image pieces.. one in each..

BASEKAMP team: 19:07:13

also labor itself can be bought and sold

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:23

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:07:42

hi randall

atrowbri: 19:08:09

hey randall

Randall Szott: 19:08:16

hey scott

Jessica Westbrook: 19:09:49

hellllo. i am late with child.

atrowbri: 19:10:03

nononononon

Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:12

wait. no

Aharon: 19:10:14

well.. that assumes the surplace value analisys is correct.. i think it is more correct to say that marx himself was question ing the validity of that - and other - theories.. for example, he had another pov based on production dictated by mode of exchange..

Jessica Westbrook: 19:10:16

scratch that

stephen wright: 19:10:35

Surplus value does exist!

stephen wright: 19:10:44

Otherwise how would accumulation take place!

stephen wright: 19:11:04

How would rich people get richer?

Aharon: 19:11:08

it does, ofcourse. question is how it plays in the grand sceme of things

Randall Szott: 19:11:34

well surplus value exists and it doesn't

BASEKAMP team: 19:11:47

"dancers"

Aharon: 19:11:53

ofcourse we do not have money trickling down but up

Randall Szott: 19:11:57

it exists *within* the confines of the economic frame

Randall Szott: 19:12:27

but whether it exists in any ontological sense is dubious

BASEKAMP team: 19:12:31

                           

stephen wright: 19:13:06

it exists within the economy where at-workers are working -- and it is what they want to repossess rather than seeing it exporipriated by the employer

BASEKAMP team: 19:13:07

W.O.W.

Randall Szott: 19:13:35

but they are chasing phantoms

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:14:00

independent contractor

BASEKAMP team: 19:14:05

no pun intended

stephen wright: 19:14:33

Randall, hi! What do you mean about "chasing fantoms"?

atrowbri: 19:14:41

There is a stuent sleeping through this discussion

atrowbri: 19:14:44

She gets an A

stephen wright: 19:14:50

A+

atrowbri: 19:15:44

Another student reports she was working on a class project @ work

atrowbri: 19:15:46

A

Randall Szott: 19:16:51

stephen - i'm just rehashing Baudrillard...in his claim that workers are not being exploited by accumulating their surplus value, but by being inculcated in the frame of vlaue itself

stephen wright: 19:17:26

It seems to me that it is in both those realms

Randall Szott: 19:17:26

it is the tryanny of *value* that is the problem not finding the appropriate baance of surplus/exchange value

Randall Szott: 19:17:58

but I'm a Baudrillard zombie, so I'm useless

BASEKAMP team: 19:18:38

Randall aren't we all zombies according to Baudrillard?

stephen wright: 19:18:40

OK. But At-working is not really about stymying the bosses ability to extract surplus value

stephen wright: 19:19:20

It is only secondarily about that -- as a consequence of using the space / time of the work environment as a place of artistic production

Randall Szott: 19:19:24

yeah stephen i joined late so missed the initial qualifier

stephen wright: 19:21:19

You know, when i translated the art critical text using the strange protocol I mentioned (inverting all the values, translating words by their opposites), everyone was happy. THe journal was happy to pay -- because they never noticed the ploy. They just thought my English prose was acceptable.

Aharon: 19:23:57

sing the blues in the cotton fields?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:24:21

knit turtleneck sweaters in the cotton fields

Aharon: 19:24:49

is that the slave pic u have..?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:10

did you just pull a "don't joke about slavery" move?

stephen wright: 19:25:22

But we don't work in cotton fields. Probably cotton workers need trade unionization.

Aharon: 19:25:29

the other way round

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:25:47

fair enough

stephen wright: 19:25:54

We work as "cognitarians" -- immaterial laborers in post fordism

Randall Szott: 19:26:05

but this is not just a tactic right? i mean slack is built into most office environments

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:26:12

the idea economy

stephen wright: 19:26:29

slack is only built into high end, immaterial labour

Randall Szott: 19:26:33

people write birthday party invites, make appointments, play in their fantasy foot ball leagues

stephen wright: 19:26:47

maybe software design, advertising

Aharon: 19:27:03

well.. in a sense you put it so well Stephen, that we need to produce - so we do work/job

Randall Szott: 19:27:07

working as a temp i saw oodles and oodles of ordinary people making work time their own

stephen wright: 19:27:17

Great!

Aharon: 19:27:20

..or did u use re-produce..?

Aharon: 19:28:11

which is exactly where we go back to the cotton field with the blues and all that.. be it a metaphorical - litteraly metaphorical - field..

Randall Szott: 19:28:29

students doing homework, people doing crosswords, surfing the web, looking at restaurant menus, texting, chatting...all on "company time"

Aharon: 19:28:38

hi magda

atrowbri: 19:28:50

the recent SEC guy fired for looking @ porn...

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:28:51

Greg, can you add Magda to the audio chat?

stephen wright: 19:28:59

But those poeple are "killing time"

stephen wright: 19:29:08

At work is not about killing time.

Randall Szott: 19:29:09

no

atrowbri: 19:29:10

art is not killing time?

Randall Szott: 19:29:23

exactly adam

stephen wright: 19:29:31

well, only if it is self consciously about killing time

magdalenatc: 19:29:35

hello. great thank. i am in.

Randall Szott: 19:29:35

what makes art better than fantasy football?

Aharon: 19:29:40

no.. they keep trying to make sure time does not kill them]

atrowbri: 19:29:44

More than 24 employees and contractors at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission have been investigated for porn-surfing at work in the past two years, according to published reports.

atrowbri: 19:29:57

Are they not using work time to "produce desire"

atrowbri: 19:29:58

stephen wright: 19:30:46

That might be stretching the point if they just gazed at some skin-observing

Aharon: 19:30:57

and therefore its subsistance kind of practice.. an expression of subsistance, not subversion of subsistancy.. just a feel of..

stephen wright: 19:31:05

If they made porn, then YES

stephen wright: 19:31:18

I think we should be making more on-worksite porn

stephen wright: 19:32:14

Yes, that's probably true. They tend to be fairly one offish.

Randall Szott: 19:32:31

a mom typing up her Christmas family newsletter at work is just as interesting to me as some post-grad using video software to edit a project

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:32:35

I'm wondering if the sleeping student is not upper class, so will never need a dayjob to "au travail"...

Aharon: 19:32:40

i wonder about your position, bob.. are you a kind of a curator? making your curation via films..?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:33:01

stephen, maybe you can help translate too?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:23

who was that?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:34:27

is/was

atrowbri: 19:34:56

if the post-grad's video shows and becomes part of a gallery exhibition leading to a teaching job, you could argue the value is merely transfered. How many of these slack-art-workers are transfering excess work value into artworld value possibly leading to either credibility or better art-related positions?

stephen wright: 19:34:57

slackers tend to be -- though are not always -- from middle class society.

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:35:15

Anibal Lopez, that's the name of the truck driver

atrowbri: 19:35:27

trying to unmute

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:35:58

thanks Stef  

BASEKAMP team: 19:36:19

street cred = use value?

stephen wright: 19:36:22

Excellent question!

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:36:32

(couldn't remember it either, had to look it up)

Randall Szott: 19:37:28

can't we side step this question? or maybe reframe it...why talk about value? why not talk about meaning or maybe the conversion of value into meaning.

BASEKAMP team: 19:38:59

do value and meaning have to be mutually exclusive Randall or is this getting too semantic?

Randall Szott: 19:39:25

well economic value has no necessary relation to meaning

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:39:41

this debate came up earlier, and i wasn't sure how 'valuable' it is to be honest... whether or not 'value' can exist outside of capital

stephen wright: 19:40:12

Let's bear in mind that one of the important characteristics of At Work is that it really exists -- it has some 400 self-acknowledged members worldwide.

BASEKAMP team: 19:40:34

despite those who define themselves based on accumulated property or how "valuable" they are not that we should be focusing on this at all

BASEKAMP team: 19:41:27

or knowledge production (re: crosswords)

Randall Szott: 19:41:36

but passing time is how you would charaterize it....

Randall Szott: 19:41:52

because you don't find it meaninful apparently

Randall Szott: 19:42:00

or not meaningful in the same way art is

Randall Szott: 19:42:35

but some people find meaning in less "elevated" arenas

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:39

randall yes.. dominic earlier said that this approach would probably not be necessary at a job one finds fulfiling

BASEKAMP team: 19:42:45

Is Au Travail a kind of art therapy?

stephen wright: 19:42:45

I see your point, Randall, but the kind of self-understanding that goes with art doing changes everything for me.

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:42:48

regardless of what it is

Randall Szott: 19:43:14

self-understanding

stephen wright: 19:43:26

as art

Randall Szott: 19:43:27

or navel gazing....sometimes it's hard to tell

BASEKAMP team: 19:43:46

as long as he was giving blow jobs!

BASEKAMP team: 19:43:57

oops did I just write that?

Aharon: 19:44:11

are you looking for meaning, randall?

Aharon: 19:44:18

lol@art q..

Randall Szott: 19:44:30

no i dont care at all what art is

stephen wright: 19:44:39

neither do I

Randall Szott: 19:44:49

i am interesed in human meaning making and creativity in whatever form it takes

stephen wright: 19:44:50

it is whatever it understands itself to be

Aharon: 19:45:00

is art a taboo term/word?

Randall Szott: 19:45:05

art is highly privileged in this regard

stephen wright: 19:45:17

uniquely so

Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:23

art is what makes life more interesting than art

stephen wright: 19:45:27

yes

BASEKAMP team: 19:45:29

well...not caring about what art is is caring

Dominic Zlatanov: 19:45:29

filliou

BASEKAMP team: 19:46:44

not about form then, about concept/process/space of creation?

Aharon: 19:46:51

what doesnt qualify as at-work..?

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:47:40

by the way, it could have been santiago sierra and not lopez

Randall Szott: 19:47:53

"

 not caring is caring - whooo boy

stephen wright: 19:47:54

well, if you work at an art gallery and just do what you're told, that doen't qualify

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:48:08

<ss type="giggle">chuckle)</ss>

Aharon: 19:48:40

y not? it mi8 be exactly what u've always dreamed of!

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:48:54

sorry, i think it was santiago sierra.

stephen wright: 19:49:02

well if it's a dream job, so much the better

Aharon: 19:49:20

it mi8 be a dream activity

Aharon: 19:49:46

point is that from that pov you do indeed place a very large set of values..

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:02

whooo boy?

Randall Szott: 19:50:11

yes exactly - creative practice in *whatever* form

Randall Szott: 19:50:39

from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.

stephen wright: 19:50:50

I would say that At Work is more interested in "decreative practice" in whatever form

Randall Szott: 19:50:51

not just making videos, novels, etc.

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:03

stef - thanks

stephen wright: 19:51:03

certainly not making videos necessarily

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:51:30

someone here is teaching a class on lock-picking

Aharon: 19:51:32

has anyone seen mikmaks..? (maybe wrong spelling.. your movie ref..)

Aharon: 19:53:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micmacs_

Randall Szott: 19:53:46

art as esperanto!

Randall Szott: 19:53:51

both equally useless

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:54:43

i've heard claims that critical theory was a kind of universal language - but I doubt that really

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:55:01

Dominique, do you think "at work" is a prevalent working class artist activity?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:13

buzzwords that help people to think they're talking the same language

Randall Szott: 19:55:38

did i miss a question?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:55:47

stephen is thinking

stephen wright: 19:55:49

didn't ask it yet -- sorry

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:55:49

(my kids are asleep so i can't say it out loud)

BASEKAMP team: 19:55:51

thanks for the music

Dominic Zlatanov: 19:55:58

prevalent working class activity?

Randall Szott: 19:56:07

oh ok im not objecting per se

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:15

i'm totally into it actually

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:56:27

yes, i mean, upper class artists wouldn't really care about this no?

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:56:43

                                               

Randall Szott: 19:56:53

just wondering why we seem hesitant to grant the activites i mentioned as being relevant

Randall Szott: 19:57:06

relevant is not the right word...

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:25

randall, - really? i might have missed the activities - can you repeat?

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:27

applicable?

Randall Szott: 19:57:35

but we seem intent on making art/activist purposes more important thna less "heroic" ones

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:43

Scott...from making family newsletters, knitting at work, filling out March Madness brackets, etc.

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:57:45

"not just making videos, novels, etc."?

stephen wright: 19:58:00

Not At Work -- the members activities are pretty unheroic

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 19:58:07

ah--- ok, i didn't get the impression anyone was hesitant that 's all -- ok

Randall Szott: 19:58:12

a form of heroism seems to be smuggled in somewhere

Randall Szott: 19:58:29

oh so sorry guys

Randall Szott: 19:58:40

my ride has arrived i have to run

stephen wright: 19:58:49

well, ripping off the man with the clock is slightly heroic

stephen wright: 19:59:02

yup

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 19:59:03

yes, we can all hear you

Randall Szott: 19:59:11

but crosswords rip off the man as much as art

Randall Szott: 19:59:14

to me

Randall Szott: 19:59:28

but i really have to go sorry

stephen wright: 19:59:29

well then it,s heroic

Dominic Zlatanov: 20:00:00

ciao Randall

Aharon: 20:00:28

thanks

BASEKAMP team: 20:01:11

yep

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:01:12

it's only 1 am here, we're cool.

magdalenatc: 20:01:34

i would like to, as i joined late and still trying to follow ... the silence of thougts (my silent thoughts in particular <ss type="smile"></ss>

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:02:10

he was "at travail"!

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:38

Eric that's fantastic

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:03:53

or.. i mean -- i like that you're doing this

stephen wright: 20:09:46

Great allegory!

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:10:04

Eric would you rather become a famous artist or a famous actor?

BASEKAMP team: 20:11:21

Thanks everyone!

magdalenatc: 20:11:32

thank you all.

stephen wright: 20:12:14

g900@hotmail.com">dg900@hotmail.com

magdalenatc: 20:12:15

that's very kind

magdalenatc: 20:12:16

thanks

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:12:41

Thank you, that was fab.

Aharon: 20:12:42

d900@ where??

Aharon: 20:12:48

o

tefpasquini" title="stefpasquini">Stefpasquini.com: 20:12:49

hotmail.com

Dominic Zlatanov: 20:12:54

g900@hotmail.com">dg900@hotmail.com

Aharon: 20:12:54

ta stephen

stephen wright: 20:13:06

See / hear you next week!

stephen wright: 20:13:12

night night

cottrigby" title="scottrigby">scottrigby: 20:13:28

nighty night!