Week 17: Homeworks Forum

[Scott]: Hey there!  I only wish I was recording the opening track.  Yeah, thank you very much.  I'm here with Barbara, Kate, Chris and Michael so far.

(Music playing in background)

Whoa. Thanks Steph. Steph, that was really fantastic

(Inaudible background chatter)

[Scott]:  We were hoping that you guys would get a little pissed ahead of time, so I am really glad.  Grease the wheels.

(Inaudible background chatter)

[Steven]: So we were actually going to start with (inaudible 0:01:28.3) who is a Lebanese Beirut based, I don't know what she does, activist and agitator.  She's fallen asleep so I guess (inaudible0:01:44.8) is going to have to start and I am looking (inaudible0:01:46.8).  I'm looking for Greg Shallotte actually because Greg, let me give a quick (inaudible0:01:54.6) and then I will handle the mic over to Greg.  Can you guys hear okay?

[Scott]: Yeah, we can definitely hear really well.  Hey guys!  Come on in.  Hey Nato!

(Inaudible background chatter)

[Steven]: Nato Thompson is here to my right, (inaudible 0:02:15.5) is to my left and a little further to the extreme left is Greg Shallotte and I have kind of put myself in the middle here because these guys have a panel this evening at the Home Works Forum.  The third and a series of panels on the question of setting up an art academy in Beirut and using Beirut campus as the site as the subject of the artistic enquiry.  And so it was kind of a panel about bringing in some ideas and counter ideas.   Judy talked about (inaudible 0:02:55.9) which could be the object of the future of Plausible Artworlds potluck project.  She is the co-initiator of the Buenos Aires in Argentina old project called CIA...

[Scott]: Oh Yeah.

[Steven]: It is the Center for Intelligence in the Arts.

[Judy]: (inaudible 0:03:22.8)

[Steven]: Let's try and get our facts right.  So she talked about that.   And to give a kind of a different example and to throw some concrete examples out there…  Greg, has been actively involved in all of discussions over the last couple of days and the Home Works Forum particularly around these educational panels  Greg kind of set up the discussion.  Asking the question of how is it possible to produce, with any knowledge economy, to produce critical forms of knowledge.  Nato also raised concrete examples would sort of his own take on it.  What's it called? The Bruce?

[Nato]: The Bruce High Quality Foundation University, which is a product that big time supported to start and I'm sure many of you are familiar with.

[Steven]: And then go into a bunch of other examples and basically questions the use of, well, the problem of lapsing into this sort of high and semiotic...  What you call it Nato?  The purgatory of postgraduate programs.  (inaudible 0:04:53.5) but let me say a few things before we talk about the panel and that just about what Home Works actually is.  Home Works was actually started in the years after the Civil War that went from 1975 to 1990.  In the mid nineties someone called Christine Tohme started an association called Ashkal Alwan, an association for plastic arts in Lebanon, and an attempt to kind of create something which really didn't exist.  Are you guys still there?

[Scott]: Hey, yeah.  Can you hear is okay?

[Steven]: yeah (inaudible 0:05:30.1).

[Scott]: Just talking into the ether? Um, yeah, I know we can totally here you.  Before you talk about that real quick media would just be good to let everybody know that our setup is a little artificial here.  We've got like it mic and liked a Skype setup and were all sitting around the table.  But I just wanted to let everyone know, at least on our side and plus whoever is out there from different Skype locations, that it is totally cool to chime in.  Even if you just wanted to say hello or have any kinds of questions or wanted to say anything.  Don't be put off by the format.  There's just no other way to communicate with people that are not sitting right in front of you decides to have some kind of technology.  So please flag us down, oh cool Steph, or if you want to sort of say something.  Just interrupt us or chime right in or type something out.  It's totally fine.

[Steven]: (inaudible 0:06:29.5).

[Scott]: Okay great.Yeah, please tell us.

[Steven]: Christine decided in a city where there was no public space and public time we're basically what wasn't in the hands of private ownership was in the hands of the different confessions, the different religious groups that have been party to that war, to try and claimed some kind of   space within the urban landscape.  And using art and (inaudible 0:07:00.6) to do that and in any attempt to bring some new ideas and to create this about 10 years ago it is now called Home Works (inaudible 0:07:16.0) for the little layout that I did the other day.  It's a kind of a platform which takes the form of exhibitions and performs lectures, videos, talks, workshops, publications and exchange in general than initially at around questions that were particularly linked to this region, which is loosely known as the Middle East but one is never quite sure of the middle of what east exactly.  This now, we are right here in the middle of the fifth edition of the forum and it is kind of evolved over the years.  What it has become it's sort of a meeting place basically to exchange of verbally but also artistic forms.  Any kind of conversation in a larger sense around how to go beyond just wanting are to be have political agency but to actually create something like a public position to carry the (inaudible 0:08:34.4) energies of art.  And the particular emphasis this year has been on the idea to turn Beirut an academy.  In other words, to make Home Works not just a biannual event where people show up and talk and then go back to where they're from, but to actually use this platform as a permit kind of affair.

So there are many things to be said about Home Works and about his upcoming or potential academy in general.  Maybe I should like Greg Shallotte, who was our moderator earlier today, tell us what he (inaudible0:09:20.9).  I should say that this is Greg's second time year, right?

[Greg]: Yes.

[Steven]: But not your third time, not yet.  Take the helm, I'll take the beer.

[Greg]: Hi Scott.

[Scott]: Hey Greg!  We are all here and totally excited about what you guys have to say and what you were doing over there.  It would be great to be there but…  

[Greg]: Yep, it is beautiful here.  It's always really lovely here in spring especially.  One of the things that is always amazing about being here is not only the sort of the impressions in mass media of what the Middle East is are just completely destroyed immediately and you fall in love with the place.  But, you know it's a complex situation as we found out tonight because we provoked a discussion and at which people were actually starting to talk about the actual conditions here in Beirut and some of this sort of difficulties in trying to start in art school here.  You know, which has some similarities to (inaudible 0:10:23.6) Argentina.  And maybe even a little bit New York's, except that in New York I remember in the 1970s it was really kind of a demolished structure physically and socially.  But it is its own place of course.  There's a lot of complexity, either a still a lot of wealth here and it mixes is into the situation in particular ways.

So one of the issues that came up was how do students enter into the system of art education when they don't come from a financially comfortable background.  Now, in the United States we are familiar with that problem but it's not such the case in Europe.  Here in Beirut is really not so much of an issue.  So that was one aspect of it.  Maybe another aspect that we didn't really address as much as we should have is what we do with the students that this art school might turn out.  How do they fit into the world?  What world do they fit into?  We actually had one of the students ask that question of us.  The way art school is taught now there's no sense of connection to what they might do when they get out.  There's no sense of how to finesse the politics of having a degree in art and preparation of what might take place after graduation.  So, you know, those are really complicated questions here but the most complicated questions seem to be in the United States.  So those are some of (inaudible 0:12:04.7) thoughts.

(inaudible background chatter)

[Judy]:   Okay.  Kind of keeping it along the lines with what Greg was saying, something that also was addressed (inaudible 0:12:29.5) was this kind of like this huge conversation of the arts implication.  And it's interesting how it operates in different contexts.  For example, in the north American (inaudible 0:12:40.4) north American context than the south American contexts because (inaudible0:12:45.8).  And there is (inaudible 0:12:52.9) context from Europe, from Europe to North America from any other context (inaudible 0:12:58.7).  Because, first of all, there are institutions that are really crystallized (inaudible 0:13:06.3).  So that gives already the background in which you can like base your discourse of education to the theory of one of these conferences.  But then when you talk about it with a different context, like could be Lebanon with the program now or in Argentina (inaudible 0:13:26.18 - 0:13:36.3).   But also because the student is not seen as a product in which in north America, a student is a product.  The student is a consumer, is somebody that is paying (inaudible 0:13:50.4) which is very different in other parts of the world.  In my (inaudible 0:13:58.5) which I've been working with two other artists on this project which is called CIA, Center for (inaudible 0:14:07.8) or Center for Individuals in the Arts or there is many names that everybody kind of (inaudible 0:14:14.7) in their own personal preference (inaudible 0:14:18.7).  We operate in a very different context which education in Argentina has always been (inaudible 0:14:30.3).  That means that you never pay to get educated.  I went to (inaudible 0:14:34.9) University and the private universities did not exist in South America, they are pretty new.  They started in the last 10 or 20 years.  So it is a new industry that has been (inaudible 0:14:49.9) and that is something that is part of the (inaudible 0:14:53.8).

And now going back to the projects (inaudible 0:14:55.8 - 0:15:05.3).  It is a different project because now in (inaudible 0:15:08.5) education has been privatized in Argentina and in other countries around.  We propose in the model that (inaudible 0:15:20.9) and also propose by the artist (inaudible 0:15:27.9 - 0:15:31.8).  And we are working on a model in which we don't have to (inaudible 0:15:38.1 - 0:16:00.4) a universal transformation of creating the institution.  And what it is a central location because we (inaudible 0:16:09.9) and to differentiate this new trend that exists in every university across America.  Like this thing with the (inaudible 0:16:23.6) because what happens there is everybody that is part of that visualizes.  It is about incorporating the notion of (inaudible 0:16:44.1) and for this I mean the (inaudible 0:16:47.4) comparable to things like literature, music, architecture from the (laughing).

(Laughter)

[Scott]: What are you guys doing over there?

[Judy]: Proposals (laughing).  So this is (inaudible 0:17:22.1) and the participants...

(background commotion)

[Steven]: (inaudible 0:17:26.0)

(audio feed he lost 0:17:34.4 - 0:17:49.1)

[Judy]: The laundry next door and they just sit there and they talk and they participate as any other student.  And then we have this conflict with the students in which they complain because (inaudible 0:18:01.4) broke down.  But, I mean, this is very important because as (inaudible 0:18:08.6) brings this element of reality to the program.  And the other component that is important is that center or Cento, as I want to say it in Spanish, it's about forces that converge with the center (inaudible 0:18:26.2) and then from there they expand (inaudible 0:18:30.3).  So we operate outside of this whatever center is.  That means we operate in slums to create a high school that is approved by university of education and it's an official high school for art in which the students from the center go and teach there and they still follow the program of (inaudible 0:18:55.0).  So it's this thing of like inside and outside and we operate in the real world.  

The other component that is important is like a (inaudible 0:19:08.6) of art in a specific scenario, particularly there are things and human issues that (inaudible 0:19:15.5).  My experience in North American universities is that it's always this kind of (inaudible 0:19:24.7).  Very different from the way we operate.  The way we operate is directly within the city (inaudible 0:19:33.7).  In the case of (inaudible 0:19:41.4) which is a project we started (inaudible 0:19:42.0) in which there were participants all over the center who go there start working in a (inaudible 0:19:47.8) of the slum in order to make it legal.  Legal for the city.  Meaning this project of (inaudible 0:19:57.7) and got approved.  So we have to go through the buearocracy.  And on that level

When you have to go through the buearocracy of politics it is very different than when you dream with your school and you're beautiful tests.  You know like "Oh, what city do I want to live in?" or " what should be (inaudible0:20:19.0) mean?" Because (inaudible0:20:21.0) you have to start dealing with the law, dealing with politicians and dealing with real forces.  That is the part that we are…  

[Steven]: So, you can here to talk about this law.  To (inaudible0:20:39.5) and it wants to create something which is not similar but would actually (inaudible and0:20:45.3).  What were the terms of engagement between you and Christine Tohme? What did she ask you?  And why do you think she is interested and what you were doing did?

[Judy]: Well Christine Tohme found out about this center I think through other people that she was doing some research with.  At some point she looked up me and then we met (inaudible 0:21:03.9) I was there and she was there and we met.  And she was like very interested in the project (inaudible 0:21:12.4) and she might come here and talk.  And we briefly talked about the model and we briefly talked about the different (inaudible 0:21:19.7) that she has here and (inaudible 0:21:23.5).  One of those from the center of (inaudible 0:21:26.9) this is a program that lasts for one year.  And we (inaudible 0:21:35.9) every year and we have around 400 applicants for 25 grants, for 25 spots.  And the problem that Christine was having in (inaudible 0:21:49.5) is that they don't have students, they have professors or people who care to teach but they don't know who they're going to teach.  They cannot (inaudible 0:22:03.4) for example, (inaudible 0:22:06.2)

(Inaudible comment or question from the background)

[Scott]: Can you just repeat that one more time?  Did you guys catch that?

(Massive inaudible conversation in background 0:22:54.9 - 0:23:18.7)

[Judy]: this is the website (inaudible 0:23:16.4) translated into English (inaudible 0:23:22.0)

(Inaudible comment or question from the background)

[Steven]: Everything at Centro takes place in Spanish.  That's the question to get actually (inaudible 0:23:39.3) here because all of our debates took place in English and English is not an official language in Lebanon.  The official language, which is Arabic of course, and the national language is French and English just happens to be default (inaudible 0:23:54.3)

(Inaudible comment or question from the background)

[Judy]: Also we had a similar problem in Argentina.  The present governor to Argentina is the (inaudible 0:24:06.2) of the Centro and doesn't speak English.  And they have a strong resistance of learning English because for them to learn English (inaudable0:24:17.1).  So it's kind of (inaudible 0:24:21.0).  A system of colonizing or whatever.  it's just a way that the world chose to (inaudible 0:24:42.5).

[Steven]: Greg are you posting pictures?

[Greg]: I'm simply getting (inaudible 0:24:49.0).  If you know how to post them and you know what the password is, and they could see kind of the context.

[Steven]: Absolutely.

(inaudible background chatter)

[Scott]: Yeah totally.

(inaudible background chatter)

[Scott]: Yeah totally.  She gave you a shout out man.  You didn't see that?  Do you want to say hello?

[Theresa]: hi baby!  I miss you.

(laughter)

[Theresa]: you guys, just one thing.  If you slowed down a little bit, it's really hard to hear speaking so fast.  So just kind of keep that in mind.  Okay bye!  Continue on.

(inaudible background chatter)

[Male Group Member]: So listen, one thing I would like to say to you just kind of backing up from our specific (inaudible 0:25:59.5) just kind of first impressions about Home Works in general.  When I was looking at this event, to be frank, I got asked to come from three different angles.  I was having beers would Anton (inaudible 0:26:13.7) and he said there is this great event and maybe you should go and Shallotte was like you have to go and then (inaudible 0:26:23.3) and then one of our board members who is also (audio feed lost 0:26:27.9).

[Scott]: Yeah, that was our fault guys.  The sound, I put the mic right in front of our speaker so you guys were getting crazy feedback probably.  All just turn it off until we have something to say.  Yeah, don't let us stop you.

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:26:57.5 - 0:32:15.0)

[Scott]: Nato?  Who is organizing the art school in Beirut?

[Nato]: What's that?

[Scott]: who is organizing the school in Beirut?  Or the academy, I mean.  The Beirut academy.

[Nato]: (inaudible 0:32:30.2)

[Scott]: Okay.

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:32:34.2 - 0:34:20.7)

[Scott]: Hello.  Yeah, we're still here.  It just dropped for a second.  We got basically everything right up to, well...

[Steven]: Okay so, I'm just going to (Audio feed lost 0:34:33.3).

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:34:33.3 - 0:44:10.2)

[Scott]: Yeah, that was like a censored audio blast (laughing).  But please, go on. (audio feed lost 0:44:18.7)

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:44:18.7 - 0:44:39.7)

[Steven]: We actually managed to (audio feed lost 0:44:42.6).

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:44:42.6 - 0:57:33.4)

[Male Group Member]: There is a question about how much this event costs to the group.

(Inaudible background conversation 0:57:55.9)

(Audio feed lost/Silence 0:58:25.9 - 1:03:28.4)

[Scott]: Hey, what are you guys drinking there by the way?  Can you hear me?  Were you guys drinking there, by the way?  Out of curiosity.

[Male group member]: Beer.

[Scott]: Oh, okay.  Same here. Okay (laughing).  We're all looking at your photographs.  Yet, by the way, we're all looking at your photographs.  They are great.  We should send some photos your way too.  But yeah, I was just curious if what you're just describing were considerations that went into forming the art academy there?  You know, because I was wondering you know sometimes it's easier to have political discussions that run parallel with artists practice and often when artists are involved they can kind of claim that as a practice because they are in discussion about it or maybe there were references it.  But when people like all of you are involved on some level in forming something like this, a citywide art academy in a place like Beirut, I'm just curious if through this conference some of those considerations came up during the planning process.

[Male group member]: Just so you know Scott, the art academy has not started.  It's just in the forming stage...

[Scott]: Right.

[Male group member]: Part of what this was about was to float various ideas, some that are successful in some that are failures around (inaudible 1:05:12.6) learn from, right?  So I think that the first thing, most of the discussion has been (audio feed lost 1:05:24.8).

(Audio feed lost/Silence 1:05:24.8 - 1:06:37.5)

[Scott]: Do you think there's a lot of competition there?  I mean, since a lot of the people involved there are involved in various pedagogical practices or creative pedagogical practices as part of what they do.  You know.  Do you think that?  I don't know.  Do you think that anyone is kind of stepping up to the plate or there is a demand for that?  Do you know what I mean?

(inaudible background answer - audio feed lost 1:07:18.8)

(Audio feed lost/Silence 1:07:18.8 - 1:10:04.8)

[Female group member]: Scott went to the bathroom.  We are here.  So, I think maybe.  I was wondering…  Being from where you are at a conference in Beirut in a very specific place and a very specific group of people, I'm sort of wondering if there's any possibility of figuring out a sort of broader sense of what is going on.  I mean, what other sort of other than the people you have experienced through the conference is there any way to experience Beirut in a broader way?  I don't know if you can say anything about that.

[Judy]: In my personal experience (inaudible 1:10:46.7 - 1:11:13.0)

[Male group member]: I just want to say that, you know, one thing that in a broader sense is really important, that does sound so dorky.  So maybe that is worth saying because dorky things are always works saying.

(Laughter)

You know, one thing that we can always know as the community is that there are people in this region that can be allies and can be our friends. (Inaudible 1:11:38.0) ability of presenting geography as a way of producing community seems all the more urgent in regions like this where we can learn a lot from the conditions here.  I have learned so much about this kind of weird idea of what the (inaudible 1:11:56.3) is and really realizing that this isn't some complicated way of reaching people in real terms, human terms.  And this art practice really makes more sense for me go into these regions.  That sense of urgency translates to kind of a way of radicalizing me.  And then a can remind us of this project that we are invested in what America can try to feel dead and stuck in our little alcove of art and whatever when in fact, this project that we're on has relevance.  I think that is the big lesson.

(inaudible background chatter)

[Female group member]:I think what I meant by my question was more so like…  Can they hear me?

[Scott]: I don't know.

[Female group member]: Can you hear me?   

[Male group member]: Yeah.

[Female group member]: I think what I meant for my question though was almost more like an outsider perspective.  Is there sort of any possibility of gaining an outsider perspective when you are sort of in the place that you are in?  It sounded like, Steven, you went on a tour or something?  Possibly you have some kind of a neighborhood where you saying?  So maybe you have more perspective about that.

[Steven]: The practice is walking.  He's sort of did a curated walk, if you want to call it that, through two different neighborhoods.  Two very, very different neighborhoods.  But not to produce an art object but to produce perception.  He is an architect (inaudible 1:13:43.5) so it was a pretty cool interpretation of an urban landscape.  But I want to add about the inside/outside dynamic.  What is really interesting about Home Works is how it is kind of a magic combination of inside and outside perspectives which allows everyone to speak very freely and very frantically and often (inaudible 1:14:15.2) and speaking absolutely directly and not having to say " I don't really know what I am talking about but if you don't mind all just add my 2¢ worth."  Maybe you could actually say "I don't agree with that" and the other person says (inaudible 1:14:33.1).  I don't think otherwise I would come.  What is really great for me is that we find common ground and this Artworld (inaudible 1:14:48.5) and that is super interesting.

(Inaudible background conversation Judy/Nato/Steven 1:14:56.3 - 1:19:01.0)

[Steven]: With interesting for me over the years to come into this thing is to see (inaudible 1:19:06.0) also in discourse.  In certain conceptual (inaudible 1:19:10.2) has gained certain currency in the discussion today.  But I think that what is really important for all of us is how all this (inaudible 1:19.22.8).  We're obviously not, us and this room here, the ones were gonna be decided that.  I love the passion in which Nato raised questions systematically.  Greg, Judy and myself obviously we are not passive bystanders we also feel like we should take over somehow in a city where we don't live and probably never will.  And I think that is an interesting thing.  The series in which art is normally practiced (inaudible 1:20:00.3) is really infectious.  Somehow we all want that to be the case.  You know, I don't want to ask questions.  I want to pour my heart into it.

[Nato]: Yeah! Yeah!

(Laughter)

[Steven]: Do you guys want to ask some questions because we are…

[Scott]: What?  Are you guys tired? Oh, okay.  I was going to say.  I thought maybe you guys were getting tired but then I realize you just ran out of alcohol.  It makes sense.

[Greg]: That is a much more serious problem.

[Scott]: Definitely.  Wow, yeah.  There's some interesting background noise here.  I will be really interested in to see how the involvement of some of you guys and a few others that we know that are there can help shape this event.  It sounds to me like, I don't know, I could be wrong.  Sounds to me like this is a very participatory, but there is some input desired by the contributors, the people who were invited to come there (lost audio feed 1:21:36.1).

(Audio feed lost/Silence 1:21:36.1 - 1:23:09.5)

[Steven]: Well user ship at this conference is a term that has come up.

(Laughter)

(Inaudible background chatter 1:23:37.7)

(Audio feed lost 1:24:17.5 - 1:26:56.4)

[Theresa]: Babe. You look really drunk in the pictures that are coming over.  

(Laughter)

(Inaudible background)

[Theresa]: Yeah, but Greg's sending video and it really doesn't do you well.  Anyway, so let's continue.  I was wondering something else (laughing).  They are showing the video right now, is a little scary.  I had a question about where this takes your personal practice like after Beirut.

[Nato]: Well the one thing that I have been considering is, well...  I don't know, to be honest.  But the natural urge is to just start doing something in Beirut or partner with an organization (inaudible 1:28:03.1).  But then it's so funny (inaudible 1:28:06.9) and then another curator said that they were looking for partnerships and then I started seeing the logic of this thing and how they were creating an interest in the region and how that will show up.  Because I'm convinced that within a year and a half we're going to see a million different pedagogical experiments in the art world.  I think the real question is to really think politically what would be affected, how we actually produce something that affected. (inaudible 1:28:52.4) and think about ways that we can support people with things that they want.  To start conversation about what they need from people in the west and what we could use and learn from them.  The dialog around kind of a humble assistance to each other and then maybe think about building ties as opposed to this kind of knee jerk let's just do a project together.  Does that make sense?

[Theresa]: That makes a lot of sense Babe.  Anybody else?

[Scott]: OMG Greg.

[Theresa]: I mean to that question.  Anybody else to that question.

[Nato]: What are you going to take back with you from this?  How are you going to apply this to your practice?

[Judy]: To my practice in particular? I don't know. I did make an observation which is like, I think that there is dynamic that is established (inaudible 1:29:50.6 -1:30:07.2).  And the sense of like the west kind of needs to feed on a sense of newness. (Inaudible 1:30:23.6) happens here, it does have a sense of newness and (inaudible 1:30:31.1).  The western culture has a sense of oppression, you could say, and I do receive a certain sense of its limitations.  I mean, it's not gonna go farther than that because there's so much that can be done (inaudible 1:30:59.1 - 1:31:13.8) and then bye bye.

(Laughter)

(Inaudible background conversation Steven/Nato/Judy 1:31:20.6 - 1:34:00.9)

[Steven]: I just want another beer.

(Laughter)

[Scott]: Steven wait, you're taking the last beer? You're not splitting it with your comrades?

(inaudible background comment)

(Laughter)

[Scott]: Hilarious.

(inaudible background chatter)   

[Scott]: Judy, Nato, Salem, Greg it was awesome to chat with you guys.  All of you guys too elsewhere.

[Theresa]: Bye Nato, love you.  It

(inaudible background chatter)

(Singing theme from Bonanza)

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