Chat History with basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa" title="#basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa">Biosphere 2 http://bit.ly/bpSdEf (#basekamp/$133463938ba5d3aa)

Created on 2010-06-08 20:05:17.

2010-06-08

BASEKAMP team: 17:46:25

Hi Guys, you're now in the public chat, about 15 min early

BASEKAMP team: 17:46:43

awesomely

BASEKAMP team: 17:46:51

anyone want to do a quik audio check?

Jessica Westbrook: 17:47:05

hellooooooooooooo

stephen wright: 17:47:15

Hi Scott

stephen wright: 17:47:21

gimme 5. or even 4

ralo mayer: 17:47:39

hello world

BASEKAMP team: 17:47:49

hellos

BASEKAMP team: 17:48:37

sure

BASEKAMP team: 17:56:50

I hve to warn you all, the weather is extremely beautiful today ]  

Jonathan Wagener: 17:56:59

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:57:04

it was lovely here too

Jonathan Wagener: 17:57:06

it rained all day i cape town

Jonathan Wagener: 17:57:11

and cold

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:57:26

it was sunny in helsinki, though still only around 12-13C

ralo mayer: 17:57:47

viennas: 24 degrees right now

ralo mayer: 17:57:50

C#

Jessica Westbrook: 17:57:51

perfect here down South (US)

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:15

it's 8 right now actually

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:19

hooray for nordic summers

Jonathan Wagener: 17:58:22

lol

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 17:58:55

there has only been one day so far this summer where i could go out without wearing a jacket

stephen wright: 18:02:28

We thought we'd start the potluck off by screening the first part of Ralo's film on Biosphere 2. And then wind the evening off by screening it in full. At Basekamp that is.

stephen wright: 18:03:20

People are only just wandering in slowly (from the balmy Philly evening I take it), so we'll just give it a minute.

BASEKAMP team: 18:03:44

so how are you guys doing? yes, we're a few die hards ATM... and looking forward to chatting!

BASEKAMP team: 18:03:56

loading up the video

BASEKAMP team: 18:04:08

so Ralo, we should paste the video link here yes?

ralo mayer: 18:04:17

yes!

BASEKAMP team: 18:04:31

ok... 1 moment

BASEKAMP team: 18:07:46

Ralo, this one right?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1681443/anintroisafootnote_h264.mov

ralo mayer: 18:07:54

i guess so

BASEKAMP team: 18:08:27

lovely -- so everyone should begin to download that... we'll queue it up here -- and play the first 15 mins or so before the chat

BASEKAMP team: 18:09:47

hmm, stephen, mind sound checking with us again? the recording sounded kind of imbalanced.

stephen wright: 18:10:09

ok just call me

BASEKAMP team: 18:11:15

hi amy, do you see the video link above?

Amy: 18:11:34

no

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:12:12

have you started playing the film already in philly?

BASEKAMP team: 18:12:49

not yet

BASEKAMP team: 18:12:52

almost!

BASEKAMP team: 18:12:58

did everyone downoad it on your end?

ralo mayer: 18:13:03

shall i say a few words before?

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:13:20

it's going to be 25 more minutes for me before i have it all, but i can start watching it i guess

BASEKAMP team: 18:14:20

ok, let's get this party started

stephen wright: 18:14:26

Yes!

stephen wright: 18:14:31

Are you going to call us all?

ralo mayer: 18:14:47

the video is actually made for a specific video installation

ralo mayer: 18:15:09

which looks like this:

ralo mayer: 18:15:11

hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>

ralo mayer: 18:15:20

hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>

ralo mayer: 18:15:25

oh

ralo mayer: 18:15:38

i got an error msg

ralo mayer: 18:15:44

did you get the image?

stephen wright: 18:15:56

Yes we did

stephen wright: 18:15:58

Thank you

ralo mayer: 18:16:00

ok

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:07

i didn't - just saw a message that you posted it

Amy: 18:16:11

same

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:12

i don't see the actual image

ralo mayer: 18:16:19

in an exhibition context i show it as a reflection on a glass pane

BASEKAMP team: 18:16:21

it doesn't look like that here Ralo

stephen wright: 18:16:22

you need to accept the download

ralo mayer: 18:16:39

i try again

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:42

i'm not being prompted

BASEKAMP team: 18:16:44

we got it

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:16:47

skype is evil

ralo mayer: 18:16:47

hat die Datei parataxe_titel.jpg an Teilnehmer in diesem Chat gesendet<files alt=""><file size="83249" index="0">parataxe_titel.jpg</file></files>

ralo mayer: 18:17:05

anyway

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:17:05

is this image online somewhere and you can just paste a url?

ralo mayer: 18:17:22

our server is down these days

stephen wright: 18:17:42

Is everyone watching the film?

ralo mayer: 18:17:58

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1681443/parataxe_titel.jpg

ralo mayer: 18:18:00

thats it

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:18:05

thanks ralo, sorry to be a pain

Amy: 18:18:18

thanks!

ralo mayer: 18:18:24

as a reflection it looks a bit unreal, hologram like

ralo mayer: 18:18:41

also the partly bad quality doesnt matter as much...

ralo mayer: 18:19:58

the performer in the video is the choreographer  krõõt juurak

stephen wright: 18:20:48

that's a cool name incidentally

ralo mayer: 18:20:57

estonian

ralo mayer: 18:21:07

one note to all downloaders:

ralo mayer: 18:21:16

pls don't put the fim on any sharing networks etc

ralo mayer: 18:21:32

i use a lot of footage without proper permissions...

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:21:42

understood.

ralo mayer: 18:22:01

and as i plan to continue the project with a full scale film, i wouldnt like to get into trouble

ralo mayer: 18:22:03

thanks

Amy: 18:26:52

something's come up and I have to exit the chat for today - v. sorry, & BK team. Ralo, I'll try to learn more about your project online, I'm very interested in works about Biosphere 2. thx. Amy

ralo mayer: 18:27:37

if you send me an email, i can send you links once our server is up again...

ralo mayer: 18:27:45

rrralo@gmail.com

Amy: 18:27:53

Great, I'd like that a lot. will do.

ralo mayer: 18:28:06

thanks

stephen wright: 18:28:39

thanks amy by the way for the link to the interview on Biosphere 2 you posted

Amy: 18:30:17

happy to. signing off! amy

stephen wright: 18:31:44

What I suggest is that we start the audio chat soon -- and that we all watch the rest of the film after the potluck.

stephen wright: 18:34:21

Where is everyone at in the film?

BASEKAMP team: 18:34:33

stephe, scott had to step away for a moment, he will be right back

BASEKAMP team: 18:35:56

but as soon as he gets back here we will surely start the audio chat

stephen wright: 18:36:20

ok Basekamp, or we can start without him if you've finished the film

stephen wright: 18:36:30

just initiate the conference call

BASEKAMP team: 18:36:49

ralo, just caught your ray davies quote, nice

ralo mayer: 18:36:56

BASEKAMP team: 18:37:17

we are at 20:33, i'll go get him though

BASEKAMP team: 18:40:58

ok i am going to start up the audio chat, if all are ready

John W. Pattenden-Fail: 18:41:19

i think it's too late for me, so i bid you good night

stephen wright: 18:41:27

let's start

stephen wright: 18:41:36

I really want to hear Ralo

BASEKAMP team: 18:43:53

thanks stephen

stephen wright: 18:52:11

200 x tighter than the space shuttle!

stephen wright: 18:52:23

not bad for artists!

Jessica Westbrook: 18:53:41

hey we are getting kicked out of this space, and will have to get back home, so we will be in transit 20 min, or so... sorry for interruption

stephen wright: 18:58:31

You wrote in your publication Multiplex Fiction that your "interest in the Biosphere stems from my own experience with failed collectives." Could you say something about what you mean by that?

stephen wright: 19:06:26

But do you look at Biosphere as merely illustrating dilemmas (failure of collectives, wrong place at wrong time, etc) or as pointing some way forward? I mean do you see it as a multifacetted failure that allows us to understand or perceive other failures, or as having some kind of success -- something to teach us?

stephen wright: 19:11:50

fascinating

BASEKAMP team: 19:14:10

ralo, are you aware of the genesis of the concept of the american suburb in the exposure of the public to the World Expo in the early 30s? in a way, this was a precursor of the coloniation of space, in that it involved the expansion of a population that had overgrown the inner city into an "infinite" amount of living space?

ralo mayer: 19:14:58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vernadsky

BASEKAMP team: 19:17:29

http://tigger.uic.edu/~pbhales/Levittown.html

BASEKAMP team: 19:18:06

Levittown: Documents of an Ideal American Suburb - 50's idea of suburban living..

ralo mayer: 19:19:30

got kickecd out of the chat

ralo mayer: 19:19:32

can you reinvite me

ralo mayer: 19:19:37

(the audio chat)

ralo mayer: 19:19:58

suburb colony

ralo mayer: 19:19:59

http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/70sArt/AC76-0628.jpeg

ralo mayer: 19:20:11

http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/70sArt/AC76-1089.jpeg

ralo mayer: 19:20:13

etc

ralo mayer: 19:20:15

ralo mayer: 19:20:44

anyone there?

BASEKAMP team: 19:20:47

trying again!

stephen wright: 19:20:52

WHat if we imagine an analogy from Biosphere 2 : We could create Artworld 2. Based on the standard model we know. Could we somehow engineer an influence-tight artworld, recreating some of the conditions of the mainstream variant, but small enough to force us to be as careful with the ecosystem as the Biospherians had to be with their greenhouse ecology? The example makes me laugh, but it doesn't sound too plausible.

ralo mayer: 19:28:15

250 mio $

ralo mayer: 19:28:20

80s dollars

BASEKAMP team: 19:28:32

wow

BASEKAMP team: 19:30:04

stephen personally  i find that a really powerful analogy

BASEKAMP team: 19:31:04

exactly - we're not talking about a world of one's own - how far can a world be reducible. 2 people? 3 people?

BASEKAMP team: 19:31:35

(scott has returned, stephen)

ralo mayer: 19:40:35

ralo mayer: 19:40:53

very interesting point...

ralo mayer: 19:41:03

is it possible to start up again?

BASEKAMP team: 19:41:14

we'll fix it, i was just thinking the same

BASEKAMP team: 19:41:44

we are calling, any luck?

stephen wright: 19:42:12

My question was this: to what extent was what happened to Biosphere 2 an historical accident, and to what degree was it a necessity. It was itself a very counter-intuitive kind of experiment. But what counterfactual history would have made it turn out differently? Was it doomed by overwhelming necessity? Or just by historical contingencies?

stephen wright: 19:42:20

Can you call us back please!

ralo mayer: 19:42:43

i'd like to answer in audio if possible

stephen wright: 19:42:54

Of course!!

stephen wright: 19:43:03

I'd like to hear the answer in audio too!

stephen wright: 19:43:11

Basekamp...

ralo mayer: 19:43:15

stephen wright: 19:43:20

Houston, we have a problem

ralo mayer: 19:44:15

ralo mayer: 19:44:24

mars to earth: 7 minutes delay

stephen wright: 19:44:35

7 minutes?

stephen wright: 19:44:46

And Earth to Tranquility Base?

ralo mayer: 19:44:51

3 seconds or so

BASEKAMP team: 19:44:53

so sorry, we must be having a connectivity issue.  we'll keep trying

stephen wright: 19:44:59

that's like skype!

ralo mayer: 19:45:12

cyberspace killed the outer space star

stephen wright: 19:45:28

Basekamp, do you copy?

stephen wright: 19:45:52

Maybe North America has been deleted.

ralo mayer: 19:46:01

i restart my skype

BASEKAMP team: 19:46:14

we copy, wireless signal seems to have degraded for some reason

BASEKAMP team: 19:46:21

let's carry on in text for the moment

BASEKAMP team: 19:46:50

if that's okay with you guys

ralo mayer: 19:46:53

ok i try

ralo mayer: 19:47:10

from ideological / political point of view it woulöd habe worked better earlier

ralo mayer: 19:47:17

in the 70s?

ralo mayer: 19:47:33

but then again from available technologies etc: it would have been bettre later

ralo mayer: 19:47:47

the opening of the soviet union was quite important too

ralo mayer: 19:47:58

because they could communicate with scientists there

ralo mayer: 19:48:02

the vernadkians etc

BASEKAMP team: 19:48:21

yes, i think the narrative of ascendant capitalism and the panglossian "best of all possible worlds" philosophy that was pervading society at that point likely had a lot to do with the narrative turning against biosphere 2

stephen wright: 19:48:22

so it's dialectical -- the moment it became possible, it was no longer possible.

ralo mayer: 19:48:51

precisely!

stephen wright: 19:49:33

these are crucial questions with respect to plausible artworlds too -- because by the time they are thought of (ideologically), they may already be too late (technically)

ralo mayer: 19:49:36

one could also say':it could only happen then

ralo mayer: 19:49:41

even if it didnt work out#

stephen wright: 19:49:46

right

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:24

and the public had less of a need to extrapolate itself into a more ideal world in the presence of the narrative that biosphere 1 and american society were going to become practically ideal in and of theirselves

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:36

through momentum already present and generate

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:39

d

ralo mayer: 19:50:45

can you tell more about your concept behinf plausible artwolrds?

stephen wright: 19:51:03

well that's a concept in the making!

ralo mayer: 19:51:05

but now is thet time again

BASEKAMP team: 19:51:15

stephen indeed

BASEKAMP team: 19:51:46

the easiest way to begin to understand the p@w project is to look at our choice of language

stephen wright: 19:51:47

sometimes we call artworlds "art-sustaining environments"

ralo mayer: 19:52:21

stephen wright: 19:52:26

but that tends to overplay the ecospheric side of things

ralo mayer: 19:52:31

is a market a world?

ralo mayer: 19:52:40

a greek market?

stephen wright: 19:52:46

it certainly helps shape a world

BASEKAMP team: 19:53:00

....the idea of "plausibility" (it's hedging but also speculative qualities)

ralo mayer: 19:53:09

the act of speaking at the greek market as politics

BASEKAMP team: 19:54:17

and 'artworlds' -- those (plural) environments set the limits and potentials of creative practice in some realm

stephen wright: 19:54:30

the reason we focus on artworlds per se (other than the fact that we're part of artworlds and so have first hand knowledge) is that art is a kind of experiemtnal undertaking that makes (art)worldmaking a more easily observable phenomenon

ralo mayer: 19:54:40

plausible seems to be more a rich term in english tw

ralo mayer: 19:54:48

in german it's more feasible only

stephen wright: 19:55:08

plausible is like possible++

BASEKAMP team: 19:55:12

ralo - yes -- in english, we use it both pejoratively and optimistically, depending on context

BASEKAMP team: 19:55:23

stephen exactly++

ralo mayer: 19:55:30

i like the meaning of "obvious"

BASEKAMP team: 19:55:47

                                                                                                                       

ralo mayer: 19:55:52

so art is experimental science

stephen wright: 19:56:04

it's experimental

ralo mayer: 19:56:27

can experiments fail then?

ralo mayer: 19:56:36

only if you don't do them

BASEKAMP team: 19:56:38

and an artworld is a petri dish for those experimental microcultures

ralo mayer: 19:56:39

i would say

stephen wright: 19:56:39

not really

stephen wright: 19:56:44

yes, right

ralo mayer: 19:56:58

fascinating

ralo mayer: 19:57:22

i apply for the PhD program

stephen wright: 19:57:25

hypotheses need to be verified -- but failing to verify them is not a failure

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:44

so as stephen said in a different way, artworlds are our case-study of chioce, for looking at mutations for ways of worldmaking

ralo mayer: 19:57:49

speaking of hypotheses

ralo mayer: 19:58:14

i think i remmebert the biospherians said they did science without hypotheses

ralo mayer: 19:58:19

more like darwinian

ralo mayer: 19:58:21

oberserving

stephen wright: 19:58:47

that's excellent! sure to drive the academics bananas!

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:56

so guys, i am tempted to call you all back just to say goodbye--- we are committing to sticking to an unreasonably strict schedule -- ending exactly at 8pm EST, (regardless of how late we start!)

stephen wright: 19:59:08

try

stephen wright: 19:59:13

please

BASEKAMP team: 19:59:16

okay

BASEKAMP team: 20:01:45

and thanks Chris for moderating on our side

BASEKAMP team: 20:02:11

Basekamp -- and now we'll be drinking beer ans wine and watching your video

BASEKAMP team: 20:02:22

ciaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ralo mayer: 20:02:26

enjoy!

ralo mayer: 20:02:29

g night