Backchannel

Chat History with basekamp/$765f6f2bc43d35a2" title="#basekamp/$765f6f2bc43d35a2">Loveland http://basekamp.com/about/events/loveland (#basekamp/$765f6f2bc43d35a2)

Created on 2010-04-13 20:30:14.

Jerry Paffendorf: 16:13:45: hello dere!
BASEKAMP team: 16:13:57: hallo
BASEKAMP team: 16:14:09: w00t indeed
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:12: badadumbadadum
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:17: cool beans
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:31: so we'll be talking over voice and chatting in here
BASEKAMP team: 16:14:35: yes
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:37: got it
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:39: awesome
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:14:52: i'll prepare a list of links to drop in
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:15:00: does skype have any live link sharing windows?
BASEKAMP team: 16:15:05: you can feel free to drag people into this panel if you know others who are having trouble joining with that link
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:15:24: test test http://makeloveland.com
BASEKAMP team: 16:15:25: no really - you can just post it here & they're linkable out
BASEKAMP team: 16:15:29
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:15:52: got it
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:17:26: ok i'm gonna hop back to it
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:17:27: ttys
BASEKAMP team: 16:17:41: rad --- cya in a bit!
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:36:14: pierce, can you read me?
BASEKAMP team: 16:38:36: Jerry, you can drag him into this chat
BASEKAMP team: 16:38:43: do u see the 'Drawer'?
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:39:57: piercccceeeeeeee
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:40:06: thanks basekampers
BASEKAMP team: 16:40:25
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:40:28: ha
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 16:40:46: sweet
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:40:52: yoyoyo
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:41:16: truly it is teh future
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 16:41:35: yes we made it jerry
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:41:51: shwoow! glad that's done. so what now?
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:41:58: ok, i'm gonna keep ordering my links
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:42:02: and maybe eat a sammich
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 16:42:23: i think we should make another future
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 16:42:37: this one pretty good but i think we can do better
Jerry Paffendorf: 16:43:03: i agree. i'll bring snacks
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:54:46: test test
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 17:55:38: here
BASEKAMP team: 17:55:42: hi everyone - hold on to your seats - running a few mins behind
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:55:45: hello!
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 17:55:50: hi!
BASEKAMP team: 17:55:51: hi there Jerry
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:55:57: sup basekampers
BASEKAMP team: 17:56:54: 'sup
BASEKAMP team: 17:56:59: lovelanders
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:57:19: brb
BASEKAMP team: 17:59:42: how's everyone doing?
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:59:48: grrrrreat
Jerry Paffendorf: 17:59:53: should we do a sound check?
Greg Scranton: 18:00:06: hey scott. hey all.
BASEKAMP team: 18:00:27: i would say yes, except that our sound is being taken care of by our "av department", and he just arrived - grabbing the stuffs now
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:00:43: lol i know the drill
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:00:51: sup av department
BASEKAMP team: 18:01:30: *muffled "hello" from bk av dept*
BASEKAMP team: 18:01:59: greg -you guys doing ok?
Greg Scranton: 18:03:05: ha ha hmmm how do I answer that? lol. Yeah things are good, just a little crazy. I would offer to host but should I need to dash to hospital it would leave you in a bit of a lurch
BASEKAMP team: 18:03:37: no - besides starting a few mins late,we're totally cool ^_^
BASEKAMP team: 18:03:45: stay poised!
BASEKAMP team: 18:04:31: btw Jerry, Carolyn Lambert - one of your" inchvestors" - says hello
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:05:15: sup carolyn!
Green Racine: 18:05:24: LOveland
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:05:35: lOvElAnD
Green Racine: 18:05:53: Green Race = WAyne Clingman
BASEKAMP team: 18:06:02: lovelAND
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:06:11: wayne!
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:06:15: what's up, man?
Green Racine: 18:06:17: Sir!
Green Racine: 18:06:25: Your the man
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:07:00: seems like some peops with new windows computers are having problems joining directly
Green Racine: 18:07:13: Yes I did
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:07:13: says the public chatroom link isn't supported on their system
BASEKAMP team: 18:07:15: btw, we're getting close...
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:07:21: woa!
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:07:40: music time
Green Racine: 18:08:01: 80's please the best years I can not rember
BASEKAMP team: 18:08:03
BASEKAMP team: 18:10:44: so jerry - can we call you first to make sure audio is okay? we're ready
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:11:27: test
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:11:31: are you here mary?
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:11:37: sure thing, let's try this out!
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 18:11:43: mary mary quite contrary
BASEKAMP team: 18:11:48: oh kay
Mary Lorene Carter: 18:11:49: yo
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:12:12: big money, big money, no wammies, no wammies...
BASEKAMP team: 18:13:02: hey guys, so... who wants to be on a conference call?
Greg Scranton: 18:13:11: meeeeee
BASEKAMP team: 18:13:16: please no one press "call" we'll call you
Green Racine: 18:13:33: No mic
BASEKAMP team: 18:13:41: laptop mic?
Green Racine: 18:13:45: no
BASEKAMP team: 18:13:50: type?
Green Racine: 18:13:54: yes
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:01: yello!
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:13: ok, ready over here
Green Racine: 18:14:13: I blame the Ice potato
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:18: me too, wayne
BASEKAMP team: 18:14:22: normally, we do both --- text chat + audio, each for whoever can & wnats to \\\
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:22: detroiticepotato.com
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:29: http://detroiticepotato.com
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:14:48: why is skype still so confusing?
BASEKAMP team: 18:14:49: ok, so we can go ahead & get started with whoever wants to call
Green Racine: 18:14:51: Happy just to hear what others have to say
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:15:07: how do i get on the line?
BASEKAMP team: 18:15:11: can anyone who's able to call volunteer to help type stuff from teh audio back into this text chat box?
BASEKAMP team: 18:15:13: we'll call ya
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:15:21: ok
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:15:25: /assumes sprinters pose
BASEKAMP team: 18:15:41: just makin sure we're all ready --- calling now. anyonw who can't or doesn't want to join just don't pick up.
BASEKAMP team: 18:16:05: if you do want to join, but miss it, or get booted, just let us know in this text chat & we'll re-add u
BASEKAMP team: 18:16:19: hmm, there are a few people who we need contact details from to call
BASEKAMP team: 18:16:27: sending invites now
BASEKAMP team: 18:17:29: karen if you'd like to join audio - you'll need to accept our invite - but ping us when
BASEKAMP team: 18:17:51: calling now
karenmthornton: 18:18:03: ok
Kyle B. Doeden: 18:18:07: can you add me to the audio too
BASEKAMP team: 18:18:13
karenmthornton: 18:18:32: juggling cooking dinner baby etc
Green Racine: 18:19:40: Sounds good here
Alan Languirand: 18:21:00: I don't have audio yet
BASEKAMP team: 18:21:46: we'll call you alan
Green Racine: 18:28:11: His childhood might expline things
iercep" title="piercep">piercep: 18:28:40: sup
BASEKAMP team: 18:28:44: or - you could talk about yoru childhood!
BASEKAMP team: 18:28:59: adding you Patrick
Green Racine: 18:29:16: Mine was redheads and Red Lable
Alan Languirand: 18:30:02: that sounds like a wonderful childhood
BASEKAMP team: 18:30:10: and red stripe
BASEKAMP team: 18:32:32: hi sean - text-only right?
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:32:42: http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/jerry
BASEKAMP team: 18:32:54: we're looking now
Green Racine: 18:34:11: Helps to have a fun story
Green Racine: 18:34:20: Loveland is a fun story
BASEKAMP team: 18:38:46: hi Jonathan - do you want 2 join the audio?
atlichty" title="patlichty">Patrick Lichty: 18:38:51: yes, SL is an open ended sort of thing
Jonathan Simpson: 18:38:59: yes please, will only be listening tonight
BASEKAMP team: 18:39:04: ok
atlichty" title="patlichty">Patrick Lichty: 18:39:14: I'm doing the presentation for The Upgrade SL tonight - so artists presentations is an app
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:39:36: plymouth online map: http://makeloveland.com/grids/1
BASEKAMP team: 18:39:51: interesting patrick - which Upgrade? INTL? or ...?
Alan Languirand: 18:40:56: The interactivity at this point is just the detail/profile view
Alan Languirand: 18:41:10: And a status update system
Greg Scranton: 18:41:18: Rita you land whore!
BASEKAMP team: 18:41:26: hah
Alan Languirand: 18:41:27: Rita's big money on loveland
Green Racine: 18:41:30: Alan you rock!
Alan Languirand: 18:41:41: Thanks Green
Green Racine: 18:41:49: Welcome
Alan Languirand: 18:41:51: The next step of interactivity is Project Lemon Battery
Alan Languirand: 18:41:58: and AR
Green Racine: 18:42:06: and that whole idea is huge
Alan Languirand: 18:42:16: http://projectlemonbattery.posterous.com/
Green Racine: 18:42:24: I love how you guys are building communty
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:42:28: here's the physical property: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8887+E+Verno...
BASEKAMP team: 18:42:33: we're looking now
Greg Scranton: 18:42:40: wow I am loving this!
Green Racine: 18:42:51: Buy land Greg
Meg Frisch: 18:43:02: call google and tell them they need to zoom in more for photos!
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:43:13: the first physical property i should say, working on a new one now
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:43:30: time-lapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npsrhDLtPzw
Alan Languirand: 18:43:51: jerry close your youtube
Greg Scranton: 18:43:51: done Green!
Green Racine: 18:44:05: You rock Greg!
Jerry Paffendorf: 18:44:44: terraforming the property to look like the online map: http://dyooy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/IMG_6161.jpg
Greg Scranton: 18:44:46: nothing like buying a little land to make me feel even more bourgeois
Green Racine: 18:44:56: Greg you need to come on Indy Film Wisconsin
Green Racine: 18:45:07: and talk new Media
Greg Scranton: 18:45:37: done.
Green Racine: 18:46:00: email me at wclingman@wi.rr.com
BASEKAMP team: 18:46:02: hey basekampers,

wish i could tune in for this one!

a few quick thoughts that may be addressed during the discussion:

1. $144 / sq. foot is quite a valorized price. i know we're supposed to be thinking in terms of inches not feet here -- but i could only look up square foot prices to compare.

industrial land in detroit city currently averaging $17/sq. foot (according to Asking Price Index). i couldn't find statistics on vacant residential lot prices, but i would guess that it's under $30/sq. foot for a market rate lot purchased from the owner. county auction properties would be at a fraction of that: so, what's the relationship between the asking investment price and "real" cost?

1b. if all inches of plymouth were sold - 10k sq. ft - that's $1,440,000: even capitalists would do a double-take.

2. are these "square inches" really "real property"? if so, how did they approach the jurisdiction?

(city of detroit and/or wayne county)? if they did not approach the jurisdiction, then whose seal is on the deed? (and, is there a deed?)

3. what about right of way for inch-locked inches?

4. does this remind anyone else of the "Million Dollar Homepage"?

- alexis
Alan Languirand: 18:47:15: alan@makeloveland.com
BASEKAMP team: 18:47:32: PS Please don't forward the below documents on, as I don't have permission to redistribute some of them.
Alan Languirand: 18:48:25: can you also send the link to the forum you're pulling from, besides the email
Greg Scranton: 18:48:26: so wait how do I actually buy land? link? directions? I iz challenGed apparently.
Meg Frisch: 18:49:10: greg, you can buy land from kickstarter - I'll post the link in a sec
BASEKAMP team: 18:49:18: RESPONSE FROM STEPHEN:

Alexis,

Your "reality" check cuts right, even devastatingly to the quick! The 3rd point about easements to reach embedded inches merely underscores the (w)hole problem you raise in point 2 about who really owns the property -- which we couldn't quite wish away by mentioning that the properties are apparently not registered with the city's registrar, or not as collectively owned -- which in turn reinforces your first question regarding the preposterously overrated price... All of which begs the "real" question: why does art always have to set itself apart from everything else, why is it even able to lay claim to symbolic or even ontological privilege to get away with high jinks even venture capitalists might balk at, what surplus value -- and what kind of surplus value -- is it generating that makes such stunts make sense? I wonder, too, why artworlds can't simply sit in the landscapes that are... Anyway, thank you for your questions, which, it must be said, LOVELAND caused you to raise! It's too bad you won't be online tomorrow, but I propose that your questions be laid squarely on the table for consideration and discussion.
Greg Scranton: 18:49:20: oh right, thx Meg
BASEKAMP team: 18:49:55: RESPONSE FROM MEG:

Just a brief note as I know very little about the whole Loveland project and look forward to finding out more tomorrow! It is clear from the information on the Kickstarter page

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jerry/loveland-ghost-inches-inchermi...

--

Things you should know: Your inches are not legally binding with the city of Detroit so you won't have to worry about things like paying taxes or other legal implications. The way this works is LOVELAND legally owns the property and is extending social ownership to its inchvestors. We take this very seriously at the same time as we have a lot of fun with it. You will be able to visit the property, create on your space, and follow and interact with it and your new neighbors via the website. You can also gift or sell inches to other people.

--

also this note may be of interest:

http://makeloveland.com/pages/grants

--

1/2 of your inchvestment during season 2 goes to these 7 projects!

In some ways, inches in LOVELAND are like shares in the project, and teeny tiny shares of Detroit. And shares must be called shares for a reason, right? For season 2, LOVELAND is splitting the income from its 50,000 inch goal with seven different projects in Detroit that run the spectrum of practical to creative land use: farming, community gardens, architectural rehabilitation, and art

--

I haven't fully formed an opinion yet but I definitely have a feeling that these inches may need to be evaluated differently than industrial or residential properties; while the ownership piece (from the first excerpt begs a question), renting a property costs more than owning one in the longer term; though in this case its up to the organization to prove that this "inchvestment" is going to be as worthwhile in the longrun with regard to to deprecating residential/commercial- PHYSICAL - and fluxuating 'intellectual' propoerty values...

just a couple of cents;

- from mega
Meg Frisch: 18:49:56: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jerry/loveland-continues?pos=11&ref=...
Meg Frisch: 18:50:10: this is the most recent post to kickstarter [ i think, pls correct me if incorrect ]
BASEKAMP team: 18:50:14: PASTING A FEW POSTS HERE... FEEL FREE TO SKIM
Green Racine: 18:50:26: Ah this is a game if someone does not likethe ideas etc then do not play
Meg Frisch: 18:50:37: giggles
Meg Frisch: 18:50:45
BASEKAMP team: 18:50:56: ]
Greg Scranton: 18:51:40: pee on it?
BASEKAMP team: 18:51:58: RESPONSE FROM AMY BALKIN

MINUS THE IMAGES, WHICH WE AGREED NOT TO DISTRIBUTE

hi Basekamp,

On the subject of inches for sale, I wanted to pass along some documents I collected recently about two inch-of-land schemes, and two other sites where land was given away promotionally, and what has happened to this land since. The research and text below was for a show (Proposals for a Socialist Colony) at Skydive in Houston. I have more information about these sites and their history if anyone's interested. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make the chat!

Amy

PS Please don't forward the below documents on, as I don't have permission to redistribute some of them.

Land: Four case studies (Dawson, YK, Huntington Beach, CA, Newark, CA, Richmond, TX)

These four sites in North America were involved with the giveaway of marginal, unbuildable land as advertising promotions, or the sale of uninhabitably small parcels (2" or smaller). Surprisingly, in some cases this free or cheap land did gain in value, was buildable, had oil found underneath, or was eventually resold at a profit. With the exception of larger lots in Huntington Beach, CA and Newark, CA, where the land, while 'marginal' and oddly shaped, was buildable, most landowners were unable to make use of their micro-holdings, or afford to purchase significant adjacent parcels to expand them to usable size. Most of the land was never occupied, and some land was eventually recuperated by tax default, unbeknownst to the deed holders.

Developers, cities, and other entities that could afford to manage fragmented title and clear tax issues often bought the parcels in bulk, sometimes using lawsuits to quiet title, or condemning lands whose owners would not agree to sell. This happened in Newark (now a shopping mall) and at the Lazy C Ranch in Texas (first a golf course, now a subdivision), and at the Klondike Big Inch Land Co. in the Yukon Territory (now the world's northenmost golf course). It also signals the move of lands once thought of as cheap, marginal, and distant wildernesses, to nearby and profitable.

The enthusiasm for and fascination with the possibilities of marginally inhabitable places is still unchecked, whether in Gordon Matta-Clark's work Fake Estates, recent Web 2.0 projects like Loveland, Detroit, failing towns offering free land to stayers, and current inch-of-land schemes. Along with enthusiasm for novelties of property, these places raise the issue of how land is transformed into property, and the dispossession that results from this transformation, as seen in the hopes of micro-land owners for the stability that property ownership confers in a land transformed to property, where all non-landowners are pre-dispossesed.

Four photographers have collaborated on this project by traveling to the sites to document the land now. These photographs are accompanied by archival materials, including maps, deeds, photographs, and letters from deed holders inquiring about never-visited land in remote places.

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Klondike Big Inch Land Co., Dawson, Yukon Territory, Canada (1955 – 1966)

Parcel size: 1 square inch

Price: Free with the purchase of one box of Quaker Oats cereal

Now: Ownership reverted to Canada in 1966 for nonpayment of land tax. Now the Top of the World Golf Course.

Location: Lot 243, Group 1052, Plan FB6718 CLSR. Quad 116B/04

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Pots and Pans Additions, Newark, CA (Early 20th century – 197

Parcel size: 20' x 30'

Price: Free with purchase of cooking ware, and encyclopedias

Now: The NewPark Mall, and commercial and residential buildings including Fremont Ford, Chevy's Fresh Mex, Chandni Restaurant, an empty lot, and the Joaquin Murietta apartment complex.

Location: Exact perimeter unknown

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Encyclopedia Lots, Huntington Beach, CA (1919 – present)

Parcel size: 112' x 25'

Price: Free with purchase of a set of Encyclopedia Brittanica Encyclopedias ($126)

Now: Beginning in the 1920's, oil was found and pumped on some lots, long narrow houses have been built on some, and the City of Huntington Beach is buying lots as they become available to expand Huntington Central Park.

Location: Bounded by Ellis Avenue and Goldenwest and Edwards Streets

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Lazy C Ranch, Richmond, TX (1954 – ?)

Parcel size: 2 square inches

Price: 75¢

Now: The Lazy C Ranch was later sold as a working horse ranch. In the 1990's it became the Old Orchard Golf Club, and is now the site of a housing subdivision.

Location: One acre parcel at 13134 Fm 1464 Rd.

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

+

Socialist Colony, Richmond, TX (2010 - )

Parcel size: 1 square inch

Price: $9.95

Now: In March 2010, one square inch was purchased for $10 in Liberty County, Texas, and deeded to Socialist Colony.

Location: Liberty County, TX

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Credits: Amy Balkin, in collaboration with Sasha Dela, Kim Stringfellow, Lissa Ivy Tiegel, and Veronica Verkley

Archival materials, photographs, and research assistance: David McDonald, Caren Ferrera, Richard Fujikawa, Debra Jubinski, David Tritter, Bruce Baker, John Baker, and Allison Carter

Additional thanks to posters on the First American Title's Landsakes blog – Bert Rush, Don Schenker, R.J. Dold, and Keith Pearson
BASEKAMP team: 18:52:10: HUGE TEXTs
BASEKAMP team: 18:52:17: </responses>
BASEKAMP team: 18:53:16: land on the moon~
Jonathan Simpson: 18:54:36: lost connecyion
Greg Scranton: 18:55:02: Scott can identify who is making all the noise
Meg Frisch: 18:55:04: someone needs to mute their chat -
karenmthornton: 18:55:30: yes can you show me where it is
Greg Scranton: 18:55:32: Patrick?
karenmthornton: 18:55:57: better?
Meg Frisch: 18:55:58: woots
karenmthornton: 18:56:06: sooooo sorry
Meg Frisch: 18:56:09
karenmthornton: 18:56:48: was trying to figure out if it was muted or not before but I figured must have been, guess was wrong
Alan Languirand: 18:56:59: one big difference between loveland and the above mentioned small land parcel schemes is expectation
Green Racine: 18:57:28: Like I said its a game
Alan Languirand: 18:57:52: we're not giving away land as a promotion, and we're specificially not trading inches as our own form of capital
Meg Frisch: 18:58:11: how can we determine expectation - if there is no screening process beforehand? Jerry, has anyone bought inches and tried to get a refund?
Alan Languirand: 18:58:18: In a very material sense, and certainly in a legal sense it does follow the mechanics of a game
Meg Frisch: 18:58:21: is there an inches blackmarket?
BASEKAMP team: 18:58:40: but alan - yeah - -- i thought you *could* trade inches, no?
Green Racine: 18:58:43: If not there should be damn that Ice Potato
Alan Languirand: 18:58:54: I'm not aware of anyone trying to collect a refund yet
BASEKAMP team: 18:59:02: ice potato?
Alan Languirand: 18:59:04: and you can trade your inches, but we haven't published a tool for it yet
Green Racine: 18:59:10: Ask Jerry
BASEKAMP team: 18:59:18: do u need a tool to trade?
Meg Frisch: 18:59:22: ideally you would manage most of the transactions online?
Alan Languirand: 18:59:26: http://detroiticepotato.tumblr.com/
Alan Languirand: 18:59:37: we don't need a tool for trade, but it would certainly make it happen
Green Racine: 18:59:44: I think the Ice Potato is a meth head
Alan Languirand: 18:59:56: it would ease the barrier to transaction for people who want to, and actually inspire people who hadn't thought of it before
Meg Frisch: 18:59:59: loves There are only 3 things you need to know about the Detroit Ice Potato (DIP) in order to love him: 1.) he is a potato, 2.) he is frozen, 3.) he is in Detroit. Everything else is gravy on mashed.
Alan Languirand: 19:00:29: Ice potato is a spoof of Greg's project: http://icehousedetroit.blogspot.com/
Green Racine: 19:00:51: Becuse of LOveland I have made great conetions with other Urban Farmers
Alan Languirand: 19:01:06: We'd like people to be able to trade inches among one another, but we'd also want them to value them and not just recycle our $1/inch
Greg Scranton: 19:01:10: this is such a boring, practical, and downer of a question but what happens with the money invested in the land? Beer? Smokes? More land? All of the above?
BASEKAMP team: 19:01:28: listening to Detroit Ice Potato Rap Demo Tape from Jerry Paffendorf on Vimeo.
BASEKAMP team: 19:01:40: rhymes
Meg Frisch: 19:01:55: I saw mention of donating some of the proceeds to grants these next couple of rounds?
BASEKAMP team: 19:01:57: mind meld
Green Racine: 19:01:57: what iswrong if Mr. P made oh my god money on this!!!
Alan Languirand: 19:02:04: After more land, supplies for the project, keeping the lights on, that's a Jerry question
Green Racine: 19:02:28: Hookers?
Greg Scranton: 19:02:28: sounds all too practical
Alan Languirand: 19:02:29: So far - 1/2 of the next $50K goes too our grant program
BASEKAMP team: 19:02:31
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:02:53: http://makeloveland.com/pages/grants
Green Racine: 19:02:57: great groups they are helping
Meg Frisch: 19:03:06: sweet
Green Racine: 19:03:07: Thank God
Green Racine: 19:03:25: must let in Dogs
alemcj" title="salemcj">salem collo-julin: 19:04:08: hey bk can u add me to the call?
Meg Frisch: 19:04:15: + =
Alan Languirand: 19:04:21: I work full time, and have been involved in Loveland as a voluteer up to now
alemcj" title="salemcj">salem collo-julin: 19:04:24: I wanna listen in
BASEKAMP team: 19:04:32: hey salem
BASEKAMP team: 19:04:35: adding u to callll
alemcj" title="salemcj">salem collo-julin: 19:04:39: thx
Meg Frisch: 19:04:44: How many people work on the web stuff for the project?
Greg Scranton: 19:04:52: Oh snap! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jerry/loveland-continues/backers
BASEKAMP team: 19:04:53
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:05:14: larry sheradon = http://lemonary.com
Meg Frisch: 19:05:20: thanks!
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:05:40: people working on the project = http://makeloveland.com/pages/people
BASEKAMP team: 19:05:44: a few questions:

1. what's up w lemons?
Greg Scranton: 19:05:47: I want a lemon with that.
BASEKAMP team: 19:06:02: 2. where did the robocop rap come from?
Meg Frisch: 19:06:08: != lemons
Alan Languirand: 19:06:19: I built this for the webcam http://projectlemonbattery.com/webcam/
Alan Languirand: 19:06:35: and it automatically feeds this http://www.flickr.com/photos/lemonbattery/
Alan Languirand: 19:06:47: robocop rap is Jerry's studio mate Kelly
BASEKAMP team: 19:07:03: kelly busted that out?
Alan Languirand: 19:07:06: and the deal with lemons are that a lemon battery is a common science fair project
BASEKAMP team: 19:07:14: mr wizurd
Alan Languirand: 19:07:18: Kelly did, with the iPhone autotune app man
Meg Frisch: 19:07:26: ++
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:07:54: http://vimeo.com/9770583
Alan Languirand: 19:07:57: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanguir/4391013702/in/set-72157623543175220/
Greg Scranton: 19:08:14: Oh so that's where the money from land investment goes!!!
Meg Frisch: 19:08:23: gold teeth, hoes
Greg Scranton: 19:08:23: iphone apps
Alan Languirand: 19:08:27: I built a scale model of lemon battery too, with an LED representing the electrical load of the camera
Alan Languirand: 19:08:49: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanguir/sets/72157623543175220/
Meg Frisch: 19:09:20: do you have plans to present any of these artifacts formally in an exhibiton, etc?
Kyle B. Doeden: 19:09:27: i think you might be talking about different things, jerry, you posted a long robocop rap a while ago on FB
Greg Scranton: 19:09:30: wow! just wow! (re: video)
Alan Languirand: 19:10:13: as messy as it need to be to work really
Alan Languirand: 19:10:59: I would like to present these artifacts, but that's really not the focus
Alan Languirand: 19:11:14: and the lemon battery thing really boils down to personality
Meg Frisch: 19:11:17: nods
Alan Languirand: 19:11:33: and makes it interesting enough for us to experiment with over and over again and be passionate about
Alan Languirand: 19:11:49: and flesh these things out. This is all very much an evolving system
Alan Languirand: 19:12:18: Lemon battery could be extened as well
Meg Frisch: 19:12:36: have you had other orgs interested in sister projects / partnerships ? have you had any venture capitalists / funders interested in ownership?
Alan Languirand: 19:12:54: I'm putting an iPhone on a pole with a solar panel on it. It's totally off the grid - there' s no power or internet going to the property
BASEKAMP team: 19:13:23
Meg Frisch: 19:13:43: would you consider the work open source
Alan Languirand: 19:14:01: but it puts out a live stream and presses photos right to a flickr accout. I see it being a great foundation for comunity based security/servailance, or even Service based software for small companies who can't afford all the tech
Meg Frisch: 19:15:36: would you consider teaching a workshop to build some of these tools?
BASEKAMP team: 19:16:11: buildign on that, would u also want to test this out in an urban setting like philly?
Alan Languirand: 19:17:00: I would like for other people to know how to build these and create something of a community movement out of it
Alan Languirand: 19:17:17: and I think you could roll this out in Philly easily
Meg Frisch: 19:17:32: really into that idea
Alan Languirand: 19:17:35: I spent 2 months and surfed the web until I had enough information to build it
Green Racine: 19:18:09: I like to see this used as a communty building tool
Alan Languirand: 19:18:24: so others can definitely learn. I'm a graphic designer and a photographer who taught himself some web programming languages, and now I have this 3g solar powered webcam running. I would love to get more eyes and hands on this
Alan Languirand: 19:18:37: especially people who know more about the parts that I don't know as much about
karenmthornton: 19:18:51: lost audio somehow
Meg Frisch: 19:18:51: sounds like a nice talk for an audience like make philly, or ignite
Meg Frisch: 19:19:06: or public school philly
Meg Frisch: 19:19:19: http://philly.thepublicschool.org
Alan Languirand: 19:19:22: We've also been kicking around the idea of extending this community login system for a context like a large apartment building
Meg Frisch: 19:19:29: community login system?
Meg Frisch: 19:19:34: sorry, did I miss that..
Alan Languirand: 19:19:51: Yes. If you buy inches, you can login to your land and see who your neighbors are and what they're up to
Green Racine: 19:19:54: with Alan = rocker
Meg Frisch: 19:19:56: ohhhh yes
Meg Frisch: 19:20:00: gotcha.
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:12: but... what can you see?
Alan Languirand: 19:20:17: what if that system were offered by the homeowner's assoc. of a condo complex?
Meg Frisch: 19:20:18: could be location aware / but not down to the inch w/ GPS tech atm
Meg Frisch: 19:20:20
Alan Languirand: 19:20:28: or a hirise apt. building?
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:38: or a prison complex
Alan Languirand: 19:20:43: at that point, the inches would be apartment numbers, but the model is the same
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:52: or an internment camp
BASEKAMP team: 19:20:55: or artist studios
karenmthornton: 19:20:55: BK did I drop the call.... lost audio
Alan Languirand: 19:21:02: lots of people in a dense space, but there are large barriers to face to face interaction
BASEKAMP team: 19:21:02: or office cubicles
BASEKAMP team: 19:21:18: oops - yes karen
Alan Languirand: 19:21:18: in our case, its physical distance, sinc people don't live on their inces
Greg Scranton: 19:21:25: well I think being located in Detroit also ties it to a real place with real issues surround real land and real people
karenmthornton: 19:21:25: thanks
Alan Languirand: 19:21:48: but it could be just that the apt building you live in had a shitty architect and there is no public or lounge space where residents can meet one another
BASEKAMP team: 19:21:53: karen, i think you need to accept out contact invite?
Greg Scranton: 19:22:03: whether or not that is intentional or coincidental
karenmthornton: 19:22:06: ok
Alan Languirand: 19:22:12: Right
Alan Languirand: 19:22:35: and the idea has come up, but we're kind of forced to imagine these tools with the loveland model
BASEKAMP team: 19:22:36: calling u now karen
Alan Languirand: 19:22:40: otherwise it doesn't function
Alan Languirand: 19:22:52: if nobody in an apt building knows anyone, rent still comes in
Meg Frisch: 19:23:27: public private / private public
Alan Languirand: 19:24:59: besides media production, for me he art piece comes in the whole output of the process being an artifact that sparks all these sociological questions
BASEKAMP team: 19:25:21: I guess my question is what kind of value you get from calling certain parts of what you're doing "art" --
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:25:27: In general I think a lot of people (not all) have issues with calling new media *art*
BASEKAMP team: 19:25:38: Alan, that's what it seemed to me, but it was described kind of differently here & there
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:25:56: I think of it as *art* as well as my business
Alan Languirand: 19:26:10: the initial idea, and the easisest way to imagine how to use your space, is leave an artifact on it
Alan Languirand: 19:26:12: leave an artwork
Meg Frisch: 19:26:18: mm
Alan Languirand: 19:26:27: and in that way we're playing the line game with hundreds of people
Meg Frisch: 19:26:58: right - the land is yr artifact, and then more artifacts on the land
Alan Languirand: 19:27:20: maybe we call it art because we're doing it and we all have art degrees?
Meg Frisch: 19:27:28: are any investors subdividing their plots?
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:27:33: yes
Alan Languirand: 19:27:38: not yet, but Rita wants to
Meg Frisch: 19:27:41: milimeters
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:27:46: Rita is curating a neighborhood
Meg Frisch: 19:27:47: nanometers
Alan Languirand: 19:27:47: some people have "gifted" inches
Meg Frisch: 19:28:05: inchteresting
Meg Frisch: 19:28:09: giggles
Alan Languirand: 19:28:11: get that metric BS out of here! (jk!)
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:28:15: she is inviting people she respects to take a few of her thousand inches
Meg Frisch: 19:28:15: yEH
Meg Frisch: 19:28:28: 8ths of an inch
Alan Languirand: 19:28:36: haha, thank you
Meg Frisch: 19:28:38
Meg Frisch: 19:28:55: nano8thsofaninch
BASEKAMP team: 19:28:57: "maybe we call it art because we're doing it and we all have art degrees?"
BASEKAMP team: 19:29:10: catching up on the text chat
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:29:10: yep. we do.
Alan Languirand: 19:29:16: haha, that's not serious, but it's certainly plausable
Alan Languirand: 19:29:23: and we do
Alan Languirand: 19:29:38: all have art degees that is
Meg Frisch: 19:29:51: i'd love to hear if someone bought their inches, dug them up, and sold them on ebay or some other market
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:30:07: I think between the 6 of us there are like 10 different art schools
Alan Languirand: 19:30:08: They should. We want them to
Mary Lorene Carter: 19:30:14: I tranferred a fw times
Alan Languirand: 19:30:36: we want people to treat inches like the rest of life. Your inch is yours to hack and play with and extract value out of ect. ect.
Alan Languirand: 19:31:00: No one has dug anything yet except for us
Meg Frisch: 19:31:16: would you consider instigating challenges / calls for response ; since the inchvestors are "gamers" in a way
Alan Languirand: 19:31:19: we're in the middle of construction on the first property to make if visitable
Greg Scranton: 19:31:19: grrr audio is ruff
BASEKAMP team: 19:31:39: greg?
BASEKAMP team: 19:31:43: oh
Alan Languirand: 19:31:47: Ideally, other residents will, but we've talked about it sure
BASEKAMP team: 19:31:50: muting helps?
Greg Scranton: 19:31:55: who doesn;t love the lions tho
BASEKAMP team: 19:32:19: @
BASEKAMP team: 19:32:27: @_@
Meg Frisch: 19:32:38: roleplay yr inches
Alan Languirand: 19:34:05: Haha, a loveland first
Kyle B. Doeden: 19:35:10: can i get back in on the audio?
BASEKAMP team: 19:35:21: adding you now
Greg Scranton: 19:35:40: and by 14 or 15 Scott meant you're #1 in our book
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 19:35:54: After 1.30 am here so I have to go. Thanks for the great discussion!
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:36:06: bye schoenbc
BASEKAMP team: 19:36:08: http://groupsandspaces.artiscycle.net/drupal/
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 19:36:11: bye
BASEKAMP team: 19:36:17: cya!
BASEKAMP team: 19:36:21
Greg Scranton: 19:36:31: internal error?
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 19:36:36
choenbc" title="schoenbc">schoenbc: 19:36:43: night!
Greg Scranton: 19:36:52: oops old bookmark
eanstoops" title="seanstoops">Sean Stoops: 19:37:14: Oh- good night all!
Alan Languirand: 19:37:27: Good night Sean
Alan Languirand: 19:38:55: Thanks for the G&S link
BASEKAMP team: 19:42:50: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/MICRO_DWELLINGS/micro_dwellings.html
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:06: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/SPACEFRAME/spaceframe.html
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:19: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/LAND/LAND.html
BASEKAMP team: 19:43:33: ^^ that last one is more closely linked with what y'ALL are doing
karenmthornton: 19:46:13: can you phone me
karenmthornton: 19:46:18: pls
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:47: y
karenmthornton: 19:46:52: never mind thought is was just me
BASEKAMP team: 19:46:58: calling u
BASEKAMP team: 19:47:13: has anyone else dropped form the call?
karenmthornton: 19:47:34: thanks
BASEKAMP team: 19:48:26: Kyle we put u on hold temporarly -- can you mute your audio? & we'll re-add you >
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:50:30: Russell Industrial map: http://makeloveland.com/grids/4

RIC: http://ricdetroit.com
Greg Scranton: 19:52:30: Lovelanders, it's been fun, informative, exciting, etc. I need to put the kid to sleep. Thanks so much for the great chat. Nite all @ Basekamp!
Alan Languirand: 19:55:00: 'night greg!
karenmthornton: 19:55:37: are there height restrictions?
Alan Languirand: 19:55:53: not currently defined
karenmthornton: 19:56:00: pollution controls
BASEKAMP team: 19:56:06: 1 mile high
Alan Languirand: 19:56:20: but physics will keep you in check by virtue of a small foundation not allowing you to get too tall
BASEKAMP team: 19:56:34: how about going deep?
karenmthornton: 19:56:35: are these imporved lots with utilities
Alan Languirand: 19:56:48: There are no utilities yet
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:57:28: http://makeloveland.com/pages/develop
Alan Languirand: 19:57:32: depth is the same as height - no rules et
Alan Languirand: 19:57:35: yet
BASEKAMP team: 19:57:50: we work as a development team here btw
BASEKAMP team: 19:58:10: looking @ api
Jerry Paffendorf: 19:58:23: extend that shiz!
BASEKAMP team: 19:58:39
Alan Languirand: 19:58:49: yeah, if you guys want to connect with our tools and start experimenting with our public data then I would love to see it
karenmthornton: 19:59:11: should take a trip to the surveyors museum in Lansing
Alan Languirand: 19:59:17: another near term goal is an Augmented reality layer on top of the live video
Alan Languirand: 20:00:55: inch timeshares!?
karenmthornton: 20:03:04: goodnight from ann arbor
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:03:15: thanks everybody
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:03:21: goodnight ann arbor
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:03:25
Mary Lorene Carter: 20:03:28: Thank you!
Alan Languirand: 20:03:29: Thanks for having us and taking the time to ask some really good questions
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:03:36: back out into the detroit night!
BASEKAMP team: 20:03:50: yea, let's continue!
BASEKAMP team: 20:04:30: bi!
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:04:35: bye guys, talk soon
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:04:38: <3
Jerry Paffendorf: 20:04:44: loveland outee!