Chat History with basekamp/$ae9a4a704e5780fb" title="#basekamp/$ae9a4a704e5780fb">Dark Matter Archives and Imaginary Archives http://basekamp.com/about/events/dark-matter-archives-imaginary-archive (#basekamp/$ae9a4a704e5780fb)

Created on 2010-06-22 21:30:50.

2010-06-22

BASEKAMP team: 18:01:25

we received a lot of response from people about tonight's chat, but no one has appeared yet at the baekamp space

BASEKAMP team: 18:01:44

we're all set up with audio too. tested with Greg, and all good

BASEKAMP team: 18:02:06

won't make Greg - or any of you - wait too much, but perhaps give a few mins to let people arrive here?

gregory sholette: 18:04:48

ok I see the window now

BASEKAMP team: 18:05:17

ok great we're just helping channel people in...

BASEKAMP team: 18:05:24

if we can give that a few mins...

BASEKAMP team: 18:05:45

in the meantime, how's everyone doing?

Greg Scranton: 18:06:12

grrrreat! hoping this thunderstorm wil cool things off

gregory sholette: 18:06:13

sounds like a job for a psychic

Greg Scranton: 18:07:11

maybe but I am more of a shamen

gregory sholette: 18:07:50

its been mostly rainly and cold here - between 48 and 65 max (fahrenheit) with short days that end around five pm - essentially its like winter in oregon

BASEKAMP team: 18:08:05

mm sounds unpleasant

stephen wright: 18:08:11

charming

gregory sholette: 18:08:46

its been nasty at night to be honest because there is no indoor heating - but after a couple of nights they provided portable heaters

BASEKAMP team: 18:09:04

so greg S, we're downloading your images - didn't realize clicking that link wsn't all we needed. Took a few xtra mins due to that

Greg Scranton: 18:09:07

I must be a misanthrope because that sounds lovely to me

Greg Scranton: 18:09:30

ha ha I am assuming that I am not "greg s" in this instance

BASEKAMP team: 18:09:40

oh dang. yes...

BASEKAMP team: 18:09:46

greg sh

gregory sholette: 18:09:55

it has its lonely charm I suppose - a bit like being on a whaling ship

Greg Scranton: 18:10:05

it's fine...is TODAY you're birthday at least?  

BASEKAMP team: 18:10:08

hi Paul - added u

gregory sholette: 18:10:42

so Stephen W - what do you make of this recent Supreme Court ruling - our time in Beirut might be open to question even?

stephen wright: 18:10:56

haha!

gregory sholette: 18:11:15

where are you now ?

stephen wright: 18:11:16

aiding and abetting those terrorists by debating with them

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:11:19

but you are not american, are you?

stephen wright: 18:11:43

you mean they won't let me into guantanamo?

BASEKAMP team: 18:11:50

lol

gregory sholette: 18:11:58

i am sure they make special exceptions for special people

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:12:02

yes. greg will do the term for both of you.

gregory sholette: 18:12:12

i snore

gregory sholette: 18:12:48

could be worse than torture

BASEKAMP team: 18:13:57

greg scranton - if you've got a sec, want to batch UL some images to the Flickr page?

gregory sholette: 18:14:32

I sent Scott some images of the project as well as a few of new zealand in and around wellington

BASEKAMP team: 18:15:00

greg yeah  i was going to try to upload in advance, but haven't had a chance yet

BASEKAMP team: 18:15:16

we can look at them here, but will need to get them up somehow...

gregory sholette: 18:15:34

Wellington (pronounced /ˈwɛlɪŋtən/) is the capital city and third most populous urban area of New Zealand. The urban area is situated on the southwestern tip of the country's North Island, and lies between Cook Strait and the Rimutaka Range. It is home to 386,000 residents, with an additional 3,700 residents living in the surrounding rural areas.

BASEKAMP team: 18:15:36

oh, actually -- Greg, I couuld upload the Zip archive to basekamp.com for people to download faster?

gregory sholette: 18:15:53

sure whatever works

BASEKAMP team: 18:15:55

ok, well - time is crawling... and the weather here is the opposite of yours Greg - hot & soupy

gregory sholette: 18:16:23

I don't look forward to those conditions when we return next month

BASEKAMP team: 18:16:39

enjoy the bitter cold while you can!

BASEKAMP team: 18:16:45

ok... so perhaps we can get started with the audio and get more time to chat together

stephen wright: 18:16:54

That is poetry -- the piece on ˈwɛlɪŋtən

gregory sholette: 18:17:28

thank Captain Cook

gregory sholette: 18:17:54

Captain James Cook FRS  RN  (7 November [O.S. 27 October] 1728 – 14 February 1779) was a British explorer, navigator and cartographer, ultimately rising to the rank of Captain in the Royal Navy. Cook was the first to map Newfoundland prior to making three voyages to the Pacific Ocean during which he achieved the first European contact with the eastern coastline of Australia  and the Hawaiian Islands as well as the first recorded circumnavigation of New Zealand.[1]

stephen wright: 18:18:12

he had a way with words, did the Captain.

gregory sholette: 18:18:32

aye he did matey he did indeed

gregory sholette: 18:19:19

but when as Europeans arrived they found another group of people had been here about 1000 years earlier:

stephen wright: 18:19:33

doh!

gregory sholette: 18:19:44

The Māori (commonly pronounced /ˈmaʊri/ or /ˈmɑː.ɔri/) are the indigenous Polynesian people of New Zealand (Aotearoa). They arrived from East Polynesia in several waves at some time before the year 1300,[6] settled and developed a distinct culture. Their language is very closely related to Cook Islands Māori and Tahitian.[7][8]

stephen wright: 18:19:48

that's always a drag

BASEKAMP team: 18:20:10

!!

gregory sholette: 18:20:18

oddly enough this particular group of colonists were somewhat more accomodating to the native population

stephen wright: 18:20:31

hence the All Blacks

gregory sholette: 18:20:44

very popular team here

gregory sholette: 18:22:32

its a law in parliament that the Maori have automatic seats and are permitted to speak their language with an interpreter - imagine if cherokee or mohawk were fully recognized in the congress with set-asides

Greg Scranton: 18:23:05

scott are we no longer doing public chat links? Did that stop working for us for some reason?

BASEKAMP team: 18:23:08

hi Heather

heather hart: 18:23:14

hiiiiiii

gregory sholette: 18:23:36

we can do this via chat if  you prefer

BASEKAMP team: 18:23:47

Greg SC yes - i mean, yes that stopped working. Skype is b0rken on that one... but.. we don't need it!

gregory sholette: 18:24:01

not following you

gregory sholette: 18:24:25

oh the OTHER greg!

stephen wright: 18:24:33

But isn't there some movement in NZ that all the settlers should leave.

BASEKAMP team: 18:24:37

greg sholette -- hhe, yeah. 2 Greg S's here

BASEKAMP team: 18:24:39

lols

BASEKAMP team: 18:25:00

texting is super-wicked-fun, so no harm there... but will be nice to hear your voice too

gregory sholette: 18:25:05

settlers might be the wrong term now but no doubt there is something like that Stephen

Greg Scranton: 18:25:12

Scott, ok. I just wanted to invite folks to this chat and sometimes that public chat link was useful is all but yes don't "need" it. Thx

BASEKAMP team: 18:25:39

i know... it's an annoyance... but... imagine trying to do this at all 15 years ago

stephen wright: 18:25:57

Or skyping with Captain Cook

stephen wright: 18:26:02

can we start?

gregory sholette: 18:26:03

what Olga and I noticed is that many of the less desirable jobs (trash collecting etc..) are held by Maori

stephen wright: 18:26:52

are they a large segment of the overall population?

BASEKAMP team: 18:26:59

BTW Greg (Sholette), we're uploading the images to the site.. will link to them when it's ready for people to download!

gregory sholette: 18:27:04

there also appears to be a Guiliani like policing of younger Maori - controversy now about illegal DNA procurement of young people

gregory sholette: 18:27:45

In 1840, New Zealand had a Māori population of about 100,000 and only about 2,000 Europeans. The Māori population had declined to 42,113 in the 1896 census and Europeans numbered more than 700,000.[26]

gregory sholette: 18:27:46

In many areas of New Zealand, Māori lost its role as a living community language used by significant numbers of people in the post-war  years. In tandem with calls for sovereignty and for the righting of social injustices from the 1970s onwards, many New Zealand schools now teach Māori culture and language, and pre-school kohanga reo ("language-nests") have started, which teach tamariki (young children) exclusively in Māori. These now[update] extend right through secondary schools (kura tuarua). In 2004 Māori Television, a government-funded channel committed to broadcasting primarily in te reo, began. Māori is an official language de jure, but English is de facto the national language. At the 2006 Census, Māori was the second most widely-spoken language after English, with four percent of New Zealanders able to speak Māori to at least a conversational level. No official data has been gathered on fluency levels.



There are seven designated Māori seats in the Parliament of New Zealand (and Māori can and do stand in and win general roll seats), and consideration of and consultation with Māori have become routine requirements for councils and government organisations. Debate occurs frequently as to the relevance and legitimacy of the Māori electoral roll, and the National Party announced in 2008 it would abolish the seats when all historic Treaty settlements have been resolved, which it aims to complete by 2014.[32]

gregory sholette: 18:28:10

I am getting this from wikipedia of course so its probably reasonably accurate but...

BASEKAMP team: 18:28:50

wow, so... just a sidenote

gregory sholette: 18:29:08

all of the signage here is in English as well as Maori (mostly) and many peole of apparent European extraction have at least some Maori vocabulary

BASEKAMP team: 18:29:47

i picked up a *cold* case of beer 30 mins ago - now it's luke warm -- and it started raining here. good thing we're inside online!

gregory sholette: 18:29:51

all in all, its a very different history of colonialism than america and I would guess africa and asia as well

gregory sholette: 18:30:45

but as one person told me this more 'progressive' history was thanks to the english landing here and not the irish prisoners that went to nearby austrailia

gregory sholette: 18:31:13

despite being 50% american-irish I still managed to hold my tongue

BASEKAMP team: 18:31:26

ok everyone! the images from Greg's project in New Zealand are here: http://basekamp.com/about/events/dark-matter-archives-imaginary-archive at the bottom of the page

BASEKAMP team: 18:31:32

under "Attachments"

BASEKAMP team: 18:31:41

everyone DL @ once!

stephen wright: 18:32:09

THe Irish prostitutes and Cockney prisoners never actually ran Australia. The British military ran it.

Greg Scranton: 18:32:27

Scott & Greg should we keep these where they are or would it be ok if I uploaded them to Basekamp's Flickr?

gregory sholette: 18:32:33

but of course the english that came did so in the 1800s as opposed to in america - they had already ended slavery years before the US and perhaps had some lessons in colonial power given to them by the american colonies - so maybe that also plays into this somewhat less harsh approach here?

BASEKAMP team: 18:33:13

greg seems ok w whatever works -- so Greg scranton yes please UL to the Flickr page if u have the inclination -- will be easier for some people

Greg Scranton: 18:33:32

will do!

BASEKAMP team: 18:33:40

ok let's do a phone call -- i'll stat it -- ready?      

gregory sholette: 18:33:42

THe Irish prostitutes and Cockney prisoners never actually ran Australia. The British military ran it  - I was citing the person here who defended NZ politics who also FYI happened to be american and british - wonder why she had her opinions as she did!

gregory sholette: 18:33:49

call away

Jessica Westbrook: 18:34:44

: )

Greg Scranton: 18:34:48

good thx

gregory sholette: 18:34:54

how is the sound its a bit fuzzy here

gregory sholette: 18:36:14

interestingly the Maori themeselves managed to exterminate one of the largest birds the great moa when they arrived here only a thousand years ago!

BASEKAMP team: 18:37:40

the project itself is great, whcih is why Basekamp has offered to help with the online component!

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:38:19

i have no audio

Greg Scranton: 18:38:30

uh oh audio in robo-mode

BASEKAMP team: 18:38:33

olga- i thought you were there with Greg? sorry

BASEKAMP team: 18:38:39

let's add you back

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:38:43

yes.

Jessica Westbrook: 18:38:44

we have okay audio here

gregory sholette: 18:38:53

can you hear me - greg sholette?

stephen wright: 18:39:00

I hear you okay

BASEKAMP team: 18:39:03

olga, please mute your audio when you get back on

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:39:10

but i use my own computer.

BASEKAMP team: 18:39:13

ok

Jessica Westbrook: 18:39:18

i do hear typing

gregory sholette: 18:39:19

so I will continue where I left off? greg s

Greg Scranton: 18:39:21

Same images on Flickr as on the Basekamp page http://www.flickr.com/photos/basekamp2010/sets/72157624335549252/

BASEKAMP team: 18:39:22

added you back

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:39:27

sorry, i misunderstoo.

BASEKAMP team: 18:39:34

everyone please mute your audio unless you're speaking -- thanks!

BASEKAMP team: 18:39:47

(please do feel free to speak though)

gregory sholette: 18:39:59

now I am hearing myself

Greg Scranton: 18:40:16

wooden structure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/basekamp2010/4725251591/in/set-721576243355...

stephen wright: 18:40:18

Olga needs to mute her microphone

BASEKAMP team: 18:40:33

greg, yes Olga needs to turn off her audio -- there is a mute button "||" in the bottom left of the audio window

BASEKAMP team: 18:40:46

you're getting double

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:40:58

i did that!

Greg Scranton: 18:42:05

outside stairs http://www.flickr.com/photos/basekamp2010/4725251629/in/set-721576243355...

BASEKAMP team: 18:42:17

nice

Greg Scranton: 18:42:18

(and I am just guessing these are the corresponding images btw

stephen wright: 18:44:25

Maybe Basekamp would be the suitable place for that

Greg Scranton: 18:45:09

posted file Screen shot 2010-06-22 at 6.44.58 PM.png to members of this chat<files alt=""><file size="11769" index="0">Screen shot 2010-06-22 at 6.44.58 PM.png</file></files>

Greg Scranton: 18:45:23

just posted a screen shot of the mic icon

BASEKAMP team: 18:46:55

thx gregscranton

Greg Scranton: 18:47:59

Eisenstein: http://www.flickr.com/photos/basekamp2010/4725900242/in/set-721576243355...

BASEKAMP team: 18:48:08

we're loking for that now --- oh, great thx

stephen wright: 18:49:00

the "what if" structure was one of the tropes that Scott and i used to frame the whole plausible artworlds project.

Greg Scranton: 18:49:07

installation shot including Eisenstein et al

Greg Scranton: 18:49:13

http://www.flickr.com/photos/basekamp2010/4725899978/in/set-721576243355...

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 18:52:10

yeah, it was the most elaborate contribution to Greg's project.

stephen wright: 18:53:37

"Imagine a future that hasn't happened, and create parameters for it"

stephen wright: 18:53:49

That sounds P@W-like

stephen wright: 18:54:15

I understand!

stephen wright: 18:55:04

Here's a quote from our introductory essay, with a quote from Vaihinger:



" What-If expresses the basic logic of fiction, which he defines as a superflexible mechanism of the mind for the solving of problems. “What, then,” he asks, “is contained in the as if?”


“There must apparently be something else hidden in it apart from the unreality and impossibility of the assumption in the condition sentence. These particles clearly also imply a decision to maintain the assumption formally, in spite of these difficulties. Between the as and if, wie and wenn, als and ob, comme and si, qua-si, a whole sentence is implied. What, then, does it mean if we say that matter must be treated as if it consisted of atoms? It can only mean that empirically give matter must be treated as it would be treated if it consisted of atoms or that the curve must be treated as it would be treated if it consisted of infinitesimals. There is, then, a clear statement of the necessity (possibility or actuality), of an inclusion under an impossible or unreal assumption.”


Fiction, in other words, enables our understanding to be guided by the effort of subsuming the unknown under the known. Thus the As-If is a kind of relay, forcing the imaginative into a form in order to pry open a broader ranger of plausibilities. It is where the imagination and consciousness overlap, yet where practical purpose (tackling the existent artworld) requires that consciousness remain dominant, such that the imaginative is present in consciousness only as potential, as a still empty, plausible space.

gregory sholette: 18:55:18

A public art project, An Imaginary Archive of novels, brochures, catalogues, pamphlets, newsletters, and other publications and material will infiltrate Enjoy and other Wellington locations during Sholette's residency. Inserted into a number of second-hand bookstores and other public places, this archive moves to present an alternative vision of the realities our society might inhabit, had the world been shaped differently. Sholette explains, that 'the exact content of these "para-fictional" publications including their layout and cover illustrations will be articulated within the processes of the Collaboratorium, but the goal will be to imagine an alternative future in which various artists groups and collaborations successfully changed the culture of Wellington, New Zealand, the region, and the world.'

gregory sholette: 18:55:49

Sholette's residency project takes the notion of collaboration as a living, working material to be uncovered, explored, and put into motion. The project has developed from a series of open calls for participation, and as a result Sholette has been working with artists and collectives in the months building up to the residency. These artists include Danna Vajda (NY), Darra Greenwald & Josh MacPhe (NY), Grant Corbishley (NZ), Matt Whitwell (NZ), Bryce Galloway (NZ), Johan Lundh (NY/Sweden), Lee Harrop (NZ), Malcom Doidge (NZ), Murray Hewitt (NZ), Oliver Ressler (Austria), Yevgeniy Fiks (NY), White Fungus (Taiwan), Maureen Conner (NY), Olga Kopenkina (NY), Jeremy Booth (NZ), Jeffrey Skoller (NY), and Ellen Rothenberg (Chicago).

BASEKAMP team: 18:57:12

back to back texts!

BASEKAMP team: 18:58:22

AWC++

Greg Scranton: 18:58:34

GAG ++

BASEKAMP team: 18:58:48

MoMA --

Greg Scranton: 18:58:56

Basekamp ++

Greg Scranton: 18:59:07

oops yes

Greg Scranton: 18:59:10

sorry about that

BASEKAMP team: 18:59:15

P@W ??

stephen wright: 18:59:31

I'm thinking so

Greg Scranton: 18:59:36

a classic

BASEKAMP team: 18:59:41

loves the cochroaches -- yea

Greg Scranton: 19:00:07

and Jean Toche

Greg Scranton: 19:00:19

oops his famous fight in the foyer of MoMA

Greg Scranton: 19:01:10

lol!

gregory sholette: 19:01:18

among the 13 deamnds by Art Workers Coalition AWC included:

gregory sholette: 19:01:26

Sholette's residency project takes the notion of collaboration as a living, working material to be uncovered, explored, and put into motion. The project has developed from a series of open calls for participation, and as a result Sholette has been working with artists and collectives in the months building up to the residency. These artists include Danna Vajda (NY), Darra Greenwald & Josh MacPhe (NY), Grant Corbishley (NZ), Matt Whitwell (NZ), Bryce Galloway (NZ), Johan Lundh (NY/Sweden), Lee Harrop (NZ), Malcom Doidge (NZ), Murray Hewitt (NZ), Oliver Ressler (Austria), Yevgeniy Fiks (NY), White Fungus (Taiwan), Maureen Conner (NY), Olga Kopenkina (NY), Jeremy Booth (NZ), Jeffrey Skoller (NY), and Ellen Rothenberg (Chicago).  http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O5-ArtWorkersCoalition.html

gregory sholette: 19:01:41

oops sorry did not cut and past correctly

gregory sholette: 19:01:55

among the 13 deamnds by Art Workers Coalition AWC included:

gregory sholette: 19:01:56

‘Museum staffs should take positions publicly and use their political influence in matters concerning the welfare of artists, such as rent control for artists' housing, legislation for artists' rights and whatever else may apply specifically to artists in their area. In particular, museums, as central institutions, should be aroused by the crisis threatening man's survival and should make their own demands to the government that ecological problems be put on a par with war and space efforts.’ The AWC also demanded that museums should show ‘the accomplishments of Black and Puerto Rican artists' and ‘encourage female artists to overcome centuries of damage done to the image of the female as an artist by establishing equal representation of the sexes in exhibitions, museum purchases and on selection committees'. The association soon broadened its scope to include protests against the Vietnam War.

Greg Scranton: 19:01:58

oh awesome I did not know this

Greg Scranton: 19:02:04

wonderful resource

stephen wright: 19:03:57

but fiction and documentation ("non"fiction) are not in opposition here -- it's all about disturbing the present, right?

BASEKAMP team: 19:04:10

a lot of this material is here: http://www.darkmatterarchives.net/archives (the current site, which will be updated again soon)

gregory sholette: 19:04:59

my chapter on REPOhistory in the new book is entitled "History that Disturbs the Present" btw

BASEKAMP team: 19:05:36

right

stephen wright: 19:06:23

Why shouldn't the dark matter construct its own histories? Yes!!

gregory sholette: 19:06:23

Dark Matter: Art and Politics in the Age of Enterprise Culture (Marxism and Culture)                              http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Matter-Politics-Enterprise-Culture/dp/0745327...

Greg Scranton: 19:06:54

"Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available."

BASEKAMP team: 19:07:21

gregscranton - it hasn't been published yet, right?

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:07:28

probably, in the end of this year.

gregory sholette: 19:08:05

the book should be out from Pluto Press in November they tell me

Greg Scranton: 19:08:29

oh I see.

gregory sholette: 19:09:02

I am in the process of proofing the text and collecting images for it so its far along at this stage -

Greg Scranton: 19:09:20

looking fwd to it

BASEKAMP team: 19:10:44

looks like both greg & olga's audio are back up

gregory sholette: 19:10:55

the sound is really breaking up for us down here

BASEKAMP team: 19:10:58

still listening, but - reverb=ing

gregory sholette: 19:11:08

at times it sounds like flocks of birds

gregory sholette: 19:11:33

let me check her settings gain

stephen wright: 19:11:35

Most of the universe is invisible, not reflective, but without that part, the universe would fly apart. so evocative

Greg Scranton: 19:11:44

looks like Olga's audio is pretty hot generally

atrowbri: 19:14:31

audio dead here

gregory sholette: 19:14:32

curiously birds became the dominant animal species in new zealand because there was only one type of mammal - the bat- here until the Maori came with goats a thousand year ago

atrowbri: 19:14:47

call dropped maybe?

atrowbri: 19:15:41

thanks!

BASEKAMP team: 19:15:53

no prob adam

stephen wright: 19:19:28

lost me

BASEKAMP team: 19:19:32

note: the 44 min mark in the recording Greg Sholette talks about the 3 kinds of Dark Matter he'd identified

Greg Scranton: 19:19:34

we should all be so lucky to fish in the morning and critique art in the evening!

BASEKAMP team: 19:19:37

ok, re-adding you

heather hart: 19:19:59

me too please

BASEKAMP team: 19:20:20

okay!

Greg Scranton: 19:20:23

I think it's maybe from german ideology

BASEKAMP team: 19:20:35

talking about the "army of the unemployed"

Greg Scranton: 19:20:50

that's my poor recollection and paraphrasin of course

Greg Scranton: 19:22:30

it was my attempt to connect what Greg was saying about Art School graduates have already failed in a sense and his comments on Marx.  And it is from German Ideology

Greg Scranton: 19:22:30

He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic.

Greg Scranton: 19:22:35

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01a.htm

gregory sholette: 19:22:57

yes Greg - I got that right away and really liked your spin on it!

Greg Scranton: 19:23:44

oh good

gregory sholette: 19:23:58

Product Description

Art is big business, with some artists able to command huge sums of money for their works, while the vast majority are ignored or dismissed by critics. This book shows that these marginalised artists, the 'dark matter' of the art world, are essential to the survival of the mainstream and that they frequently organize in opposition to it. Gregory Sholette, a politically engaged artist, argues that imagination and creativity in the art world originate thrive in the non-commercial sector shut off from prestigious galleries and champagne receptions. This broader creative culture feeds the mainstream with new forms and styles that can be commodified and used to sustain the few artists admitted into the elite. This dependency, and the advent of inexpensive communication, audio and video technology, has allowed this 'dark matter' of the alternative art world to increasingly subvert the mainstream and intervene politically as both new and old forms of non-capitalist, public art. This book is essential for anyone interested in interventionist art, collectivism, and the political economy of the art world.

gregory sholette: 19:24:32

that is the blurb from Pluto about the new book fyi

gregory sholette: 19:25:26

your fading in and out Scott

gregory sholette: 19:26:12

they are like heliotropic flowers - despite being far from the sun they constantly point towards it!

BASEKAMP team: 19:27:15

yep

stephen wright: 19:28:24

I wish I could participate more, but the sound is pretty choppy

Greg Scranton: 19:28:46

I can try to call everyone from here for the last 30 mins if you'd like

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:28:46

i agree.

gregory sholette: 19:28:52

during the WPA and during the 1970s when the NEA was at its peak in the USA there was an attempt to "employ" as many art workers as possible

gregory sholette: 19:29:07

hi Michael

BASEKAMP team: 19:29:08

can u all hear michael?

gregory sholette: 19:29:27

I can hear him but only geting some of it

BASEKAMP team: 19:30:39

michael was metioning examples like the WPA and Artist Placement Group, and interested in what you think full employment by artists *might* look like...

BASEKAMP team: 19:30:46

sounds like you got most of that

stephen wright: 19:31:21

a P2P artworld!

BASEKAMP team: 19:31:30

Kris here also has something to say at the next break

gregory sholette: 19:31:39

hi Kris

BASEKAMP team: 19:31:51

peer to peer model for artists - definitely an interesting idea IMO

gregory sholette: 19:32:03

who does it for the heck of it - that part was lost

gregory sholette: 19:32:13

who is they

BASEKAMP team: 19:32:22

Kris suggests some artists might not be interested in ful employment

gregory sholette: 19:32:41

no labor camps for aritsts!

BASEKAMP team: 19:32:45

LOls

atrowbri: 19:32:46

no work.

Greg Scranton: 19:32:47

lol!

atrowbri: 19:33:25

"we don’t work anymore: we do our time. "

stephen wright: 19:33:25

some "retraining" camps for mainstreamers, as Gustav Metzger suggested

gregory sholette: 19:33:33

there is of course a pleasure artists take from being semi-employed - but I am not just talking about money but also wuffie

Greg Scranton: 19:33:42

no more reality TV shows about the "next great artists" hosted by the bourgeoisie

BASEKAMP team: 19:33:52

wuffie?

gregory sholette: 19:34:05

retraining camps for art workers - we should set one up at basekamp!

gregory sholette: 19:34:16

someone help me with a definition

Greg Scranton: 19:34:22

The Hegemonic Art Studios

stephen wright: 19:34:23

Yes!!

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:34:30

how about this?

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:34:34

http://www.guelman.ru/xz/english/XX22/X2207.HTM

atrowbri: 19:34:45

kopenkina: YES

gregory sholette: 19:34:53

sorry I spelled it wrong:

gregory sholette: 19:34:54

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie

Greg Scranton: 19:34:56

ouch

BASEKAMP team: 19:35:05

for sure

BASEKAMP team: 19:35:35

Whuffie is new to me - thanks for that!

Greg Scranton: 19:35:47

boing...boing

gregory sholette: 19:35:52

its a hacker term I think

stephen wright: 19:35:56

Olga, on the same note, here's a great interview with Mladen:

stephen wright: 19:35:58

http://www.voxphoto.com/english/expositions/stilinovic_mladen/stilinovic...

gregory sholette: 19:37:51

‘Now we have armies of amateurs, happy to work for free,’ exclaims Chris Anderson, editor of magazine Wired, one of the early proponents of the networked ‘gift’ economy,

 

Previous industrial ages were built on the backs of individuals, too, but in those days labor was just that: labor. Workers were paid for their time, whether on a factory floor or in a cubicle. Today’s peer-production machine runs in a mostly nonmonetary economy. The currency is reputation, expression, karma, ‘wuffie,’ or simply whim.

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:37:56

great!

Greg Scranton: 19:38:10

Greg do you have a link to that article?

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:38:22

i couldn't hear well what scott said about mladen..

gregory sholette: 19:38:22

so sure Scott - once we are back up north into the hot summer we can discuss this and other ideas

Greg Scranton: 19:38:49

oh I think I found it: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.07/people.html

atrowbri: 19:39:52

we got dropped again

Greg Scranton: 19:40:12

robo-audio

atrowbri: 19:40:19

hamburger lady

atrowbri: 19:40:37

thx!

stephen wright: 19:40:48

Greg, are you in cahoots with people in other areas who are working on similar archiving projects? I'm thinking of the COnceptualistas del Sur in SOuth America -- people like Suely ROlnik and Ana Longoni amongst others are doing incredible stuff around the alternative histories of political conceptualism

BASEKAMP team: 19:41:05

Olga, I was saying now that Greg & Stephen and you are all on the call - maybe we could open a channel of communication with Anton and whoever else about that Mladen show, and get some cross pollination

gregory sholette: 19:41:13

hi Greg here it is:   ‘People Power Blogs, user reviews, photo-sharing – the peer production era has arrived’, Chris Anderson, WIRED July 2006, http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.07/people.html

BASEKAMP team: 19:41:19

hi George, adding you to the call now

Greg Scranton: 19:41:58

uh oh

BASEKAMP team: 19:42:23

has anyone else been dropped?

atrowbri: 19:42:41

we're here

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:42:48

to Scott -- Anton is going to be a speaker on the CAA panel on 'dark matter' next year.

lga_kop" title="olga_kop">kopenkina: 19:43:03

but we can try to initiate something before that..

stephen wright: 19:43:05

I was referring to Mladen's show in Montreal: Idler: An Artist who invents nothing

BASEKAMP team: 19:43:14

Greg, are you in cahoots with people in other areas who are working on similar archiving projects? I'm thinking of the COnceptualistas del Sur in SOuth America -- people like Suely ROlnik and Ana Longoni amongst others are doing incredible stuff around the alternative histories of political conceptualism

gregory sholette: 19:43:21

Hi everyone - just along these last lines of dark matter and p2p networks here is an excerpt from the new book to end with:

gregory sholette: 19:43:26

The once shadowy archive spills open. Blogs, wikis, mashups, fan edits, numberlesss P2P file sharing programs and free, collaboratively evolving software evince the revenge of the excluded. But De Certeau’s everyday dissident appears on the verge of mutating into something else, something that some neoliberal theorists describe as the networked engine of 21st-century capitalism. ‘Now we have armies of amateurs, happy to work for free,’ exclaims Chris Anderson, editor of magazine Wired, one of the early proponents of the networked ‘gift’ economy,

 

Previous industrial ages were built on the backs of individuals, too, but in those days labor was just that: labor. Workers were paid for their time, whether on a factory floor or in a cubicle. Today’s peer-production machine runs in a mostly nonmonetary economy. The currency is reputation, expression, karma, ‘wuffie,’ or simply whim.  



Still, there are filters. Ways of pruning, delimiting, and enclosing impurities within this social productivity without completely erasing its fecundity. Shortly before the dot.com crash in 2000 a leading oracle of networked culture prophesized that the initial, giddy, ‘protocommercial stage’ of cyberculture was necessary before profits could be realized. According to Wired magazine’s founding editor Kevin Kelly,



The early Internet and the early Web sported amazingly robust gift economies; goods and services were swapped, shared generously, or donated outright – actually, this was the sole way to acquire things online. Idealistic as this attitude was, it was the only sane way to launch a commercial economy in the emerging space. The flaw that science fiction ace William Gibson found in the Web – its capacity to waste tremendous amounts of time – was in fact, as Gibson further noted, its saving grace…In the Network Economy, follow the free.   



There are filters because like all dark matter some of this ‘amazingly robust’ free productivity distributes less commercially desirable offerings. Gifts whose embrace remains suspect including dissident, even poisonous gifts. Right from the start De Certeu’s primordial tricksters began to hack the Internet. Open-source programmers developed free software to compete with privately copyrighted commercial programs, The Yes Men produced mirror-images of the World Trade Organization website that ‘corrected’ its institutional identity; and hacktivist culture-jammers built self-detonating ‘Google bombs’ so that someone searching for the phrase ‘more evil than Satan himself’ would find themselves directed to the website of Microsoft corporation. And yet these tactical games operate in two directions simultaneously. While they provide a means by which the wary and ephemeral fishes of resistance can hide from the panoptic gaze of power, disappearing into some inner fold or temporary autonomous zone from where they can carry out tactical strikes, this same clever mimicry inadvertently projects onto the spectacular screen something that in a moment of panic might be mistaken as an exaggerated menace. Perhaps this is why a deeply compromised government already seduced by the fog of war initially misapprehended the threat presented by Kurtz, Ferrell, and CAE? Like a mistaken encounter with its own doppelganger the state was first startled, then transfixed. Then its disciplinary apparatus drove forward with one objective: to produce a political show trial in which an unnamable threat would not only be given a name, a fearful name, but ultimately compartmentalized, disciplined, and assigned a numbered prison cell. When CAE transformed various insurgent theories – either avant-garde or radical-corporate – into accessible, DIY procedures, and then directed a diffuse, yet unquestionably resistant force towards select, private and governmental targets, it publicly demonstrated its ability to operate within the same nebulous terrain of power that the state now deems its privileged concession to own, lend out, or direct. Authorities compare CAE to terrorists? They reveal their inability to categorize what is unnamable. Kurtz and his colleagues sinned yet a second time and really brought down ‘the man’ when they published manuals explicating how to make use of this counter-knowledge, including its tactics and circuitry, and did so not with the ambiguous idioms of art-speak, but rather with the determined hyper-clarity of the techno-geek. This is where something far more grotesque than a simple return to the past begins to be teased out of an otherwise incomprehensible instance of state censorship. It is a warning aimed as much at the ‘avant-garde’ entrepreneurial spirit of many dot-comers, as it is against a group of interdisciplinary TM interventionists who refuse to stay in their assigned role as isolated cultural workers.

BASEKAMP team: 19:43:34

omg ok

BASEKAMP team: 19:43:49

olga ko great - so sounds like you have the communication alraedy open

stephen wright: 19:43:51

yeah

stephen wright: 19:44:09

I know you know them

BASEKAMP team: 19:44:25

interesting yes

stephen wright: 19:44:34

maybe it could be facilitated

stephen wright: 19:46:21

Greg, sound has been a challenge for me tonight -- but what I've heard has been great

gregory sholette: 19:46:25

by everyone - sorry to end a bit early but its difficult here in this noisy cafe! best - greg

Jessica Westbrook: 19:46:30

thanks!

stephen wright: 19:46:35

good night

Paul Wityenbraker: 19:46:35

thanks

George Wietor: 19:46:38

thanks!

heather hart: 19:46:40

sound dropped but thanks!

BASEKAMP team: 19:46:54

we've just ended the call ---

Jessica Westbrook: 19:47:17

oh hey Paul

Paul Wityenbraker: 19:47:24

HI

BASEKAMP team: 19:47:41

if anyone wants to listen to our recording of tonights chat -- give us a heads up! or leave a comment here http://basekamp.com/about/events/dark-matter-archives-imaginary-archive#... -- you'll automatically get an update when we post the audio

BASEKAMP team: 19:48:40

We really need some podcast closing music!    

heather hart: 19:48:55

lol

atrowbri: 19:49:41

http://content.onsmash.com/archives/40106

BASEKAMP team: 19:49:59

next week starts a 6-week course on Plausible artworlds with the MFA students from UArts... they'll be joining these weekly potlucks each Tuesday night from here

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:37

adam, playing now...

BASEKAMP team: 19:50:58

ok, so if everyone on the chat clicks that link and hits play... you'll get a sense

atrowbri: 19:51:05

Jessica Westbrook: 19:51:38

BASEKAMP team: 19:51:46

adam & jessica, when does P@W start at SAIC?

Jessica Westbrook: 19:52:10

i need to plan classes next month

Jessica Westbrook: 19:52:19

i dont have my head there yet

Jessica Westbrook: 19:52:25

moving in 6 days

BASEKAMP team: 19:53:17

let's work all together (on some level) on an open curriculum

BASEKAMP team: 19:53:36

we're still playing "it's a shame" btw

Greg Scranton: 19:53:41

oh no it's over?

atrowbri: 19:53:45

it's a creat cover

Greg Scranton: 19:53:48

Well thank you all

BASEKAMP team: 19:54:10

Greg, the audio is anyway -- Greg had to roll

Greg Scranton: 19:54:18

gotcha

BASEKAMP team: 19:54:26

ok, another track coming up...

Greg Scranton: 19:54:59

I am running bet basement & 2nd fl...sweaty

BASEKAMP team: 19:55:21

http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/artist/Sleigh+Bells/1210636

BASEKAMP team: 19:56:09

^ this is the next track in our closing intro

BASEKAMP team: 19:56:56

ada & jessica & greg & stephen -- you all got the Google doc for the UArts P@W curriculum right?

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:12

we can also migrate to IRC now that the chat is over

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:17

if you'd like?

Jessica Westbrook: 19:57:31

scott - do you draw?

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:43

in the curriculum? sort of

atrowbri: 19:57:52

hm

atrowbri: 19:57:55

i do not remeber getting it

BASEKAMP team: 19:57:59

i changed it to include .. um.. i forget -- "air drawings"

Greg Scranton: 19:58:05

got it Scott! Looks like a good sturdy skeleton thus far.  Are you looking for feedback, ideas, "curriculum".

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:05

oh, hold on a sec

atrowbri: 19:58:09

the outline?

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:11

greg yes

Jessica Westbrook: 19:58:11

i got the keynote grettttt twittererered

atrowbri: 19:58:11

or more?

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:18

ohh yeah

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:22

keynote is different

BASEKAMP team: 19:58:42

getting googel doc link now...

Greg Scranton: 19:58:53

ready?

Greg Scranton: 19:58:56

About (1/2 of) this course

This course is an extension of an evolving conversation about the plausibility of different kinds of artworlds. The course will attempt to open up more questions, rather than attempting to define or answer anything definitively. Using an open doc like this for the the course outline process itself will help keep the material fresh and open to active engagement.

The 'teachers' and the students of this course are all curious - trying to learn and share what we can from this ongoing research. Everyone can get something out of this and everyone interested can help. Let's get this party started!

About Plausible Artworlds 2010



Plausible Artworlds is a project to collect and share knowledge about alternative models of creative practice. From alternative economies and open source culture to secessions and other social experiments, Plausible Artworlds is a platform for research and participation with artworlds that present a distinct alternative to mainstream culture.



The aim of the project is to bring awareness to the potential of these artworlds as viable “cultural ecosystems” that provide both pedagogical and practical solutions to a range of emergent socio-cultural challenges. We view Plausible Artworlds as an opportunity to discuss the interdisciplinary role of artist as creative problem solver and the expanding notion of what an artworld looks and feels like.



The project currently offers a weekly public potluck hosted at Basekamp in Philadelphia, during which open informal discussions are held with invited artists, writers, curators and anyone interested. The project is also compiling a collaborative publication from research, conversations and projects connecting with the Plausible Artworlds initiative.



Participate



We invite participation by sharing your stories about the Plausible Artworlds you are creating in your own community. We want to know what this artworld looks like, what it smells like and what kinds of impacts it is motivating. Send us text, send us a photo or video and send us your ideas about a Plausible Artworld you wish existed. Propose a project or ask for help on an existing one.



Our plan for this year is in process. We have slots open for our potluck and a collaborative workshop and exhibition space available for use. If you want to get involved, get in touch with us!



• Propose a Potluck Topic or Guest

• Learn how to “tune” in or visit the Basekamp space in person!

• Submit your ideas and stories about a Plausible Artworld

• Start a project at Basekamp



Schedule



    * WEEK 1: Archiving creative culture

    * WEEK 2: Organizational art

    * WEEK 3: Secessions and other social experiments

    * WEEK 4: Open source culture

    * WEEK 5: Alternative economies

    * WEEK 6: Autonomous information production



    

Class group projects

Mondays:

Week 1: Intros, personal and entire P@W project quickly - announce the weekly guest - look at P@W as a living archive for creative culture - begin experimental micro-research-project w students, start with discussion-based air-drawings (collaborate w 1 other person)

Week 2: Weekly topic, look at what organizational art sometimes is, and consider what it might be - open discussion during train ride together to and from the end of the line - continue micro-research project - consider perhaps how to work within the confines of the university, or our day jobs (collaborate w 2 people)

Week 3: Announce weekly guest - discussion about secessions - consider other approaches for experimental research project responses, consider dropping out of school and living on a communal farm (collaborate w 3 people)

Week 4: Presentation of FOSSCON rapid examples (nearly 100 slides and semi-automtic-shotgun-style info saturation on open source @Ws">P@Ws) - consider how to extend or build upon existing research through a rapid micro-project (collaborate w 4 people)

Week 5: Announce weekly guest - bring a gift and exchange ideas or consider alternate compensation for each other's time - expand experimental research project (collaborate w 5 people)

Week 6: Weekly guest is announced & quickly discussed - past weekly experimental research projects are considered in the context of autonomous information production - agree on a form of exchange for knowledges and experiences produced over course of past 6 weeks (collaborate with entire group)



Tuesdays:

Set up a workspace in a given area at BK to be used throughout the duration of the course.



Before each weekly potluck, join improv cooking class - bring and prepare food - culminates w/ feast - collaborate w entire group



White elephant research

the thought is that each week's topic could also have a set of secondary research topics the students can draw from for mini-research projects.

I've adapted these instructions for white elephant gift exchange here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant_gift_exchange#Gameplay



    * All participants draw a number (from a hat, perhaps) to determine their order.

    * The participant with #1 selects a face-down topic card. Each successive participant, in the order determined from the drawing, can either 1) "steal" an already flipped topic card (if there's one they really like) or 2) be adventurous and go for a face-down topic card. If the participant chooses to steal, the person whose topic is stolen now repeats his turn and either 1) steals another person's topic (he cannot immediately steal back the topic that was just stolen from him) or 2) selects a new topic.

    * This cycle of stealing can sometimes continue for a long time, (although we could set a stealing limit per topic per round of 3 or something) until a new topic is chosen, at which point the turn is passed to the participant with the next number from the drawing.

    * Since topics can be stolen, the topic in your possession is not yours until the game is over. However, this is often amended with a rule declaring a topic "dead" or "safe" after it has been stolen a certain number of times (usually three). This helps the process go more smoothly (avoiding, for example, the hypothetical scenario of the same topic being stolen by every successive participant) and limits the disadvantage of being among the first to choose gifts. The game is over once all numbers have been withdrawn from the hat or all gifts are opened

Greg Scranton: 19:59:02

oh yeah! bam!

Jessica Westbrook: 19:59:06

plausible promises

Jessica Westbrook: 19:59:09

june 18

BASEKAMP team: 19:59:16

nice greg - thx!

BASEKAMP team: 20:00:05

keep in mind, this is our syllabus

Greg Scranton: 20:00:19

also just emailed it to AT & JW

BASEKAMP team: 20:00:40

greg.. the google doc link?

Greg Scranton: 20:00:49

yep

Greg Scranton: 20:01:02

well it said "attach as html"

BASEKAMP team: 20:01:05

W to the double 0 to the tt

BASEKAMP team: 20:01:12

mm

Greg Scranton: 20:01:28

oops brb. if u guys are gone when I get back g'nite

BASEKAMP team: 20:01:53

greagscranton++

stephen wright: 20:06:35

This description sounds like a slightly determined kind of artworld already, one premised on gaming, creativity. If we really want them to come up with new artworlds, plausible ones, then we need to give them less direction, no?

stephen wright: 20:06:44

I don't know, I'm tired I guess

BASEKAMP team: 20:07:33

stephen, you mean the White elephant research method idea?

BASEKAMP team: 20:08:40

stephen, gotta step away for a moment - Michael & I need to plan this week - but will be back on in a bit!

Greg Scranton: 20:09:22

nite all

BASEKAMP team: 20:09:38

night gregg!

stephen wright: 20:09:48

nite

BASEKAMP team: 20:10:51

Stephen - let's talk about the overdetermined part tho soon.. this is something we can change. Personally i just want to bring them in and have immersion into p@w examples... but that might mean other experiences than just a verbal description... so... something to think about

BASEKAMP team: 20:10:58

be back in a few...

atrowbri: 20:13:15

I agree with Stephen. I get the idea of getting people involced with a game but I don't see how this really bridges anything

atrowbri: 20:15:04

On the other hand, I really wonder if the students will be able to come up with new, plausible artworlds without some sort of anti-direction, by which I mean actively attacking scholastic structure, freeing them from expectations and encouraging them to look at their own lives, communities and asking them to consider plausible artworlds that are not imposed from outside